The warm front sceme (boiler grant) and requirement for a tenancy

[Thunderchild]

My father who is disabled and on pension credits phone up to find out about the government scheme that can get him a grant for a new boiler as the one in the house is quite old and inefficient.

Now he was asked if he owns the house, the answer was no as it belongs to myself and my sister. So the next question was is there a tenancy agreement ? the answer is also no as we do not charge him rent. Apparently because he does not have a tenancy agreement he can't apply.

Now my thought was this: ok lets do a tenancy agreement for him, whether or not he pays us the rent is besides the point as long as he gets his boiler. But that would them mean that myself and my sister will be liable for income tax on the "rent" which we don't actually want.

So my thought is: what if we make a tenancy agreement for a very small amount ? like a few pounds. That way the tax in negligible and I don't mind paying it and he gets the boiler. but how low can a tenancy agreement be made for ? or can an agreement be drawn up on the basis of free rent giving him the right to remain for as long as he wants (until death if that be the case)

I can understand why they have done it like this to stop people on benefits being "used" to get a free boiler. but myself and my sister have our own houses and our father will live in the house for as long as he wishes, so this is not about benefiting us but him as he would otherwise be entitled.

Any ideas ?

[Mamyalynne]

My advice remains the same, seek advice from an agency that has specialised knowledge.
I had new heating (storage heaters) and a new water heating system put in place under the 'Warm Front' scheme, am in private rented but with no family complications. I wish you luck in getting Dad warmer this winter.

[maclarencat]

I would check that your father is getting the benefits he is entitled to. If he is disabled he should be gettin benefit for that on top of his pension and pension credit. He should also be getting full council tax benefit and if he lives alone and no-one is getting carers allowance for him he is also entitled to extra money. As regards his gas bill make sure he is on the best tarrif for him and dont forget he will be getting £300 a year towards the cost of his fuel in his winter allowance. Also if he is on pension credit he will get extra for any weeks when the temperature drops below a certain level. So far from not getting anything from the government he is entitled to quite a lot . If he is already receiving all these benefits then I dont think he should have a problem paying his bill. If not get it sorted you do not get medals for not applying.

[Thunderchild]

well, yes it does sound like he is entitled to more than he is getting. I don't want to be funny but the system is stupid. There are too many sub-components to benefits and you do have to know about them and apply. How can he apply if he is not told they exist ? There is intentional lack of information. Indeed if he is entitled to all of that he will have a more comfortable life and less worries. I am getting him on a cheaper tariff, just because he is not comfortable with doing his energy bills online he pays 20% MORE for his power than I do, and shame on EON and all the other power companies that levy this ridiculous difference on people that can't do something that actually does not mean that much to the energy company !
I am now a representative for an energy company myself and will be sorting him out, but then the people i represent don't have multiple tariffs made intentionally complex to screw people, we have one tariff with 3 tiers and you automatically get put on the cheapest.

For example when i lived in that house on my own and was out of work I only claimed jobseekers which was £46 a week, they never told me I should go to the council and apply for benefit to pay for the council tax, instead I paid all up by finding what work I could and coasting from one job to another until I got a permanent job. The job centre is useless and i have to say deliberately useless !

[hc4361]

He does get pension credits, though, which is a means tested supplementary benefit, so he must have applied for it.
He should also get the annual winter fuel allowance, and because he is on pension credit, additional cold weather payments which are paid automatically.

[mojay]

I wouldn't get too exited even if he is accepted for the scheme. I know people that applied and had a new boiler fitted within 6 weeks. I applied and was accepted in writing but they weren't able to give me a start date. This was Jan/Feb of 2010 and every time I chased I was told there was a long waiting list. Last Sep/Oct I paid to have a new boiler as I could no longer stand the fear of the water running cold whilst I was having a shower. As yet - I've not been given a start date by Warm Front. I think it must depend on what part of the country you are situated.

[bednobs]

TBH i don't really get where you are coming from in your last post - you say you paid your council tax bill by finding whatever work you could - surely that is the same for most people - they work then they pay their bills
As far as i'm aware if you are a tennant you can claim the warm front grant, which seems to be backed up by what you are saying that they asked if he had a tennancy agreement.
I can see why you think people are getting at you, and why other people seem to get more than you, but let's face it, what you are proposing is you and your sister and your dad are trying to get the taxpayer to pay for your dads housing costs, and he's put it in your name so that you/he can avoid paying for care home fees or inheritance tax, and have a nice big lump sum when your dad dies and you sell the house

[Thunderchild]

well bednobs the original reason why the house went in our names was to keep my mothers mits off it and more importantly the mits of her family who were the ones fueling the breakup, divorce and claims for all they could, basically she has a twin sister (an accountant) who will do her best to take all the inheritance and she wanted to keep my mum happy by getting her the house, they made fake claims and she even pretended that mother had worked for her her when she was still in italy ! - so that she could claim for legal aid off the taxpayer to do her dirty business, to be honest I don't know how they did it and if i was in the UK at that time i would have gotten to the bottom of it and brought to light the certain fraud they were committing, they only gave up when the grant run out and it was obvious we had outsmarted her. In the mean time this costs us thousands. I was making international calls on a biweekly basis to our solicitor to ensure he got the message to her that it weren't going to work.

At the time we lived in Italy and the house was rented (or should i say being wrecked ;( ) and it was the best option to keep it in the family at least as it would have either been sold to cover legal costs or ended up in my mums sisters hands and later in her bank account.

having put it in our names and yes we were aware it avoided inheritance tax we preferred to leave it so as there was not much point in spending money changing it and my dad is ever fearful that his now ex sister in law my try it on again (in my mums name of course) and we no longer have the money to fight it, initially we all lived in it although it was a bit small for 3 adults and so myself and my sister having got full time jobs bought our own houses. My father does not want to go into care in later life and expect myself and my sister to look after him (cringes). Either way be it ours or his house the preferred choice would have been to rent it to pay for care as and when that comes along, as they say we will cross that bridge when we come to it, I have no idea of what care he is entitled to and the circumstances were not created to get him free care.
Indeed I have often commented that I'd be happier to not have the house in my name, if he ever wants to move (as he does to a bungalow) it will count as a sale of a second home for me and my sister and money will be lost in taxes anyway (so much for us dodging paying our dues !) if either of us were to default on our mortgages he could loose the house as they could reposes that too if our own houses did not cover the costs. So however way it is done there are down sides and we are not getting away with anything really.

My comment about my housing tax when i lived there alone was that while on jobseekers I was not told of what else i could claim for, the only reason I could keep up the payments was by pure luck of finding a few days work here and there, otherwise as thing were i would have gone into the red. Fortunately unlike many people I can live on little when required and know how to manage what little money I may have.

[bednobs]

well you obviously don't need to justify yourself to anybody, but thanks for explaining a bit more.
Not that this is anything to do with your question, but it sounds lie the bestest thing to do would be to sell the house (anlong with the crap boiler) and buy a bungalow

[Thunderchild]

Not sure why this has an answer 13 years on but I can now tell you how stupid the system really was and who was defrauding the general public.

At some point, I can't remember how long after this conversation someone knocked on his door and got him to sign up for a free boiler. When the problems later ensued I discovered that none of the paperwork had any company details that could be traced. A freshly qualified gas "engineer" came and hung a new boiler in place of the old, yes hung is the word. The system was kept exactly as it was to save money. They failed to complete the work and left. 

I tried to track them down and got as far as the company that hired the company that knocked on dads door. When I said their name the lady on the phone clearly knew them. I explained the problem and she said she had to speak to a superior. When she came back on the phone she denied all knowledge of the company she had just acknowledged.

So there was nothing I could do. Then my father was contacted by someone from British Gas who was investigating all of these instalations because of numerous complaints.

It transpired that the scheme was paid for by the then big 6 energy companies (the ones that actually generate the power) by order of the government and naturally this meant that every energy customer, tax payer or not had funded this sham.

The idea was to lower the UK's greenhouse emissions so that we did not get fined by the EU, we either paid the fine or spent the money on solving the problem.

British Gas employed a contractor to hadle the scheme, that contractor in turn hired another and they hired another. I am not joking, between British Gas who paid our money out and the actual blokes who came and fitted the bodged job there were 5! layers of contractors that just pushed pens around!

In my fathers case the assessor found that the system had not been fitted with a room thermostat, which by that time was a legal requirement via the building regulations, so the work done after 5 pen pushers had been paid with our money was in fact illegal!

Another installer was sent in to fit the thermostat and plaster over the gaps left in the plaster by the hooligans who, literally just hung one boiler in place of another.

So that is the end of that story, rich or poor, tax payers or not if you paid for energy you were paying for this mess. I hate to think what the ratio of money spent on the actual job to the money spent on people subcontracting it out agin and again was.

Our MP was hopeless, he answer to our problem was that he did not beleive in global warming.....