GBH On Christmas eve :(

chelseacc | 12:03 Mon 26th Dec 2011 | Law

24 Answers

Me and my boyfriend and another couple went out on xmas eve just a spare of the moment thing, my bf isnt much of a drinker but did get in with the festive spirit and had more than a few (he was very drunk) at the end of the night some guy started to get aggresive and got right into my bf face, he pushed him and told him to keep his distance (maybe in not such a polite manner) but that's as far as it went after my bf was asked to leave so we did, (incident number 1) so when we left the bar we was walking to the cab office when two guys walked passed and said something rude to me, and then another argument broke out, but this time my bf tried to resolve the situation and said to the smaller guy that he rognised him from boxing and said that they would probably laugh about how drunk they were that night, then the big guy (his dad) who was like twice the size of my bf started taking off his jacket and offering my bf a fight then the whole thing escalated again! i got in between the two to try and stop mainly the man from beating up my bf, even telling the guy that my bf wasnt worth it, by this time he took a swing at my bf over the top of my head, so i moved to avoid getting hit and when i looked bk the guy had a pencil i his eye, luckliy it hadnt gone into his actual eyeball just the eyelid (which is bad enough tbf) everyone just looked at this broken pencil hanging from this guys eyelid even my bf, it was just a shock! how did it turn from this big guy throwing blows to him gettin a pencil wedged in his eyesocket?? my bf was drunk he just stood there in shock too until the police came and arrested him.... My bf is an architect student and in the process of starting up his own design business with a few friends from uni and is constantly brainstorming and sketching down ideas when he's out which is why he happened to have a pncil in his pocket, he has no previous and is not an aggresive person, can anyone give me some advice on what might happen.

Refused refund at "Monsoon" shop.

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Buenchico

Based upon what you've written, the charge is more likely to be ABH rather than GBH. See the definitions used by the Crown Prosecution Service in this document:
http://www.cps.gov.uk...s_against_the_person/
(If the CPS initially charge your boyfriend with GBH it's still likely that his solicitor or barrister will be able to get the charge reduced).

For sentencing guidelines, see here:
http://sentencingcoun...ine_-_Crown_Court.pdf

Chris

AlBags

Make sure you WRITE down in detail .. EVERYTHING you (and separately written) your boyfriend can remember about the whole situation .. and times.
You'll need to get it straight.
Any un-connected witnesses? I presume not.
Don't be cocky or mouthy with the law either .. you will be worse off for it.
GL Al.

PS .. Bit funny .. XMas Eve .. a lad out in the streets with his dad .. maybe there is 'history' with this father that might be in your favour.

boxtops

Albags, that's good advice - when I used to work in insurance we always advised people involved in collisions (and it's the same principle here) to write down everything they remember, before details get forgotten or blurred.

chelseacc

Question Author

thank you for your comments, at the moment it stands at GBH with intent, his solicitor did say that it could get dropped to ABH depending on his injury's which she said wasnt too bad considering it was his eye, the only witnesses we had were with us on the night out, and that is great advice about writing it down from now, thank you 'albags' and i did find it just a tad strange when the young guy was saying it was his dad... when the police came my bf co-operated to the fullest and he said did so all the way through while he was in custody (think he'd be quite a fool if he didnt tbh) but the other guy and his son started to fight amongst themselves once my bf was in the back of the van, the father had his son up by his throat against a wall while the police dragged him off! he was acting very violent!

dtgblue

Just a word of warning to your bf, a pencil through the eye can easily kill.

EDDIE51

Chris, The person charged is a boxer, <he 'rognised'? him from boxing>
I think using boxing training in a fight can count as 'use of a weapon' so would that make a GBH charge more likedly ? My opinion is that it would but I stand ready to be corrected. Also how did the pencil find it's way from the BFs pocket into the other guys eye lid ? evidence of 'intent' ?

chelseacc

Question Author

i totally agree that it could of been alot worse, no doubts there, and yes my bf does box, and has done for 8yrs, and has never had a fight in the street because he knows that he could be severly punished because his fists can be/are a form of weapon, because he is trained and skilled and knows how to throw punches. But the pencil getting from his pocket into the guys eye is a mystery to us all, my bf especially, he said all he remembers is the guy making a charge at him! and then they was bk to where they started and the guy said 'c'mon is that all you got' not realising he had a pencil in eyelid for about 10seconds and thats when everyone was just shocked!

Buenchico

Eddie:
The boxing training is irrelevant but the pencil qualifies as a 'weapon' in this case, adding to the possibility of a potential Section 20 'GBH' charge being increased to the far more serious Section 18 'GBH with intent' (as indicated by the police).

However it is solely the extent of a victim's injuries which differentiates between ABH and GBH (and there's no such thing as 'ABH with intent'). It's irrelevant as far as the charge is concerned as to whether a weapon was used (although, of course, it can still influence sentencing).

chelseacc

Question Author

may seem quite obvious to others reading this, but will my bf go to prison for this and if so does anyone know roughfor how long....? I mean there must be certain factors that could work in my bf favour such as him having no previous, he's been studying for the past 5yrs, he's starting up his own business and so on, we was planning on having a baby but i dontwant to raise a kid on my own knowing that his fathers in prison!

EDDIE51

My point is that no court is going to believe that a pencil just happened to find it's way from your BFs pocket (which pocket by the way ?) into the victims eye lid.
In my view there is evidence of 'intent' from 2 points, first the fact that your BF is a boxer and as you admit he knows that using his boxing skills can count as use of a weapon. Secondly, that your BF admits to having a pencil in his pocket and that after the fight the same pencil was in the victims eye.
That is why I am asking which pocket the pencil was in , for example it is just about conceivable that just by chance, a pencil that was in a top pocket of a jacket, ended in the eye of the other person in a fight. I can think of no way that a pencil that was in a back, side or inside pocket could end up in the victims eye just by chance, it would need to have been taken out of the pocket to be used as a weapon. This would be proof of 'intent' and justify a charge under S18, GBH with intent.
A section 18 offence is virtually certain to be a jail term.
Your BF needs to get all his facts in order and get a good solicitor urgently , there IS a possibility of a prison sentence here.

EDDIE51

Sorry Chris I didn't see your reply before I started typing, ignore the bit about boxing training .
The pencil and exactly how it ended up in the victims eye is going to be the 'key' in this case, and as we both seem to think that could make the diffrence between a S18 and a S20 charge.

anneasquith

i agree with eddie, id be interested which pocket the pencil was in. as stated in outside top pocket, during a " fight" could have been accidental !

chelseacc

Question Author

Which is exactly what i keep i my bf, how did the pencil end up in his eye, which is def the most important part, the pencil was in his pocket where he would have had his hands (as i'm forever telling him to take his hands out and hold mine) he said he just remebers the guy charging at him, we've come to the conclusion that my boyfriend must have had his hands in his pocket when the guy charged for him, and my boyfriend instantly swung for the guy not realsing he was holding a pencil at the time which ended up in his eye, but from the guys injuries there was no itenion of causing serious damage as he just pulled it out on the spot and wanted to carry on fighting! he had a single tear of blood which barley managed to crawl onto his cheek, im not trying justify it here just merely pointing out the injuries he sustained wasnt life threatning (as bad as it sounds)

chelseacc

Question Author

and as much as i'd like to say that the guy slipped and fell onto the pencil im sure how much truth (if any) would be in that. :(

EDDIE51

Sorry chelseacc, but a court is going to take a bit of convincing that your BF just happened to be holding a pencil without realising it when he punched the other guy. The prosecution is going to say your BF used the pencil intentionally to stab the victim in the eye.
As I see it your, BF has to plead guilty and hope that if the charge is a S18 , as now seems likedly, the CPS will be willing to allow him to plead guilty to S20 to avoid a more serious S18 charge.

chelseacc

Question Author

at the moment the police are saying that they dont have enough evidence apart from the victims statement, a broken pencil and the end of it all caught on CCTV (which to me sems like enough)... what happens if the guy miraculously decides to drop the charges?

EDDIE51

If the guy decides to drop the charge I am afraid it may not make a lot of diffrence , the CPS may decide to proceed with the case anyway . This is standard procedure in cases of domestic violence , not sure about this type of offence.
There will be evidence from the hospital report of a pencil in the victims eye lid and that your BF admits to punching the other guy and that the pencil was in his pocket.
The police are deciding what evidence to put to the CPS (who decide on the charge , not the police) it will be this evidence that decides the charge , S20,S18 or a lesser offence of ABH.
If your BF has not yet got a solicitor then get one as soon as the offices open on Wednesday, did your BF speak to the duty solicitor when he went to the police station after being arrested ? If so what he told the solicitor will be vital evidence.
Also in what way did your BF know the victim from boxing ? as a former opponent or in training? This is relevant to the case as if there is a history of aggresion between them it will go against your BF.

chelseacc

Question Author

yes he spoke to a duty solicitor that day and she told him to go 'no comment' through his interview, he said they didnt speak much, she just advised him not to say anything untili further evidence (if any) shows up but he said he will go back when the office opens, the son who he said he knew from boxing was a guy he had met there, they only spoke the once as he was new to the club (my bf) , it was ust a general convo from what he says.