potential section 18 GBH

[dan_dan]

hi, i think i am in trouble. at the weekend i was texting back and forth with an on-again/off-again girlfriend and the conversation lead to her saying she would find it quite kinky to use razor blades in the bedroom. after a bit of discussion, she came over and we talked for a while then ended up in the bedroom where a razor was produced and she cut along my chest. after which i ran the blade acorss her arm then down her back (not in an aggressive, retaliatory way but more playful tit-for-tat). at first she seemed to be okay with everything, then after a while she seemed a bit more freaked out by the blood. i said i had bandages and offered to clean her up, but she said she wanted to get it sorted properly, so after a bit of small talk, she left for the hospital. (seemed a bit of an over-reaction to me at the time, but she wanted to do it). the following morning i was woken up by police who arrested me for potential GBH with intent. As you might imagine, i scared witless now as it seems if she presses charges, it could be a section 18 offence which i hear has a minimum 4 year sentence if convicted, up to life imprisonment! (i dont have any prior criminal record). i have made statements saying the whole thing was consensual, but she is now saying that it wasnt (although apparently the medical report states that it was consensual, so a doctor must have signed that off?). Im terrified, please help!

[NOX]

I've been thinking about this, and while england is a bit atrachaic in terms of understanding sado- masochism, the argument that you cannot ' consent' to being assaulted is clearly not strictly true.
When you enter a boxing ring you are fully aware that another human being is going to hit you repeatedly, in a manner that if it were done in the street it would result in a section 18 charge. No-one in the boxing ring is EVER charged with any form of assault, even when injuries result in brain damage and death. Why is this is assault cannot be consentual?

[NOX]

Why is this IF assault cannot be consentual?- sorry typo:)

[EDDIE51]

Nox read the link posted earlier, the Judge stated that in cases of this type consent can not be given. As to boxing , it is classed as 'sport', by participating in sport you accept the risk of injury.
You can not consent to be cut with a razor.
(I think boxing should be banned but that is another question.)

[rowanwitch]

Its an incredibly rare fetish so difficult to provide evidence that cutting could be used in this way

Try 'this tainted love's 'website at least if you can show it is a recognised practice it might make it seem less 'far out'

They have stuff on the extreme end of the sexual spectrum

[murraymints]

What on earth were you thinking of..?? think you are on dodgy ground here even with texts etc...the deed was still done...you must countersue but CP may proceed without any charge from you or gf...do you know any of her ex's that she has done this with ? if they can be produced and make a statement to that effect..then her conduct/behaviour/acceptance of normal (to her) practice may hep...good luck ..and DON'T do it again...engage brain first..!

[mickrog]

If this is real then I have lived a very sheltered life .

[EDDIE51]

I don't think he will be doing it again murrymints , dan_dan is going to be lucky to get out of this without a jail term. I would hate to be him in prison when the other inmate hear he gets a sexual 'kick' out of being cut with a razor !!!

[murraymints]

Eddie...I know shudder shudder...used to do a lot of talks /courses..inside.for pre release/parole boards ...have seen for myself what can happen...

[dan_dan]

well, she has confirmed that she cut me first. also a mutual friend of ours has seen the hospital report and told me that it states the injuries were mutually consenting (not that that seems to be important anymore), so i doubt she could claim it was self defense in any way, and it says that she was just very embarrassed about the whole situation. It was only after this report was submitted that she has started changing her story. at the end of the day, my only major concern is a custodial sentence (which a section 18 WILL be if convicted although, my solicitor informed me that just because i was arrested for GBH, that in no way means that i will charged with that as no formal charge has even yet been made). Its a messed up situation, but hopefully it will be resolved without a prison sentence. I have also been informed that a prosecution will only go ahead if it is in the public interest. I wasnt sure exactly what that meant at first, but have been told that had i been some utter maniac thats been causing trouble in the past, then it would be in the public interest to prosecute and try and put me away, but seeing as I have no prior involvement with the law of ANY kind (not even a speeding ticket!) then the public interest issue seems somewhat unlikely at best.

[dan_dan]

in reply to murraymints, she said she has done it before, but i dont know any of her ex's, so tracking them down and getting them to make a statement would be next to impossible? she has a history of self-harming and has been diagnosed with depression (and been given medication in the past for it so it is at least documented) and she claims she suffers from a bi-polar disorder (but i dont know who has made this decision, or if its even true. she could just be milking it for attention like she is doing with this whole case). I know what youre thinking, why the hell am i mixed up with a girl like this in the first place right? well she didnt seem quite so unstable before this weekend!

[ummmm]

And her asking you to cut her with a razor blade didn't appear slightly unstable?

[dan_dan]

shes into some pretty weird stuff...

[mickrog]

It takes 2 to tango.....

[HowardKennitby]

serious question - has your solicitor suggested any form of psychiatric assessment of you?

[NOX]

I think this guy is getting a real beating up here for frankly something that ins't that weird if people both consent to it. Pain is a popular contrast to pleasure for many people during sex, it's not uncommon, just most people don't have to ask advice on forums about it when things go wrong- and EDDIE I really don't see your point about boxing being a sport and therefore exempt. Either something is GBH or it isn't, I think boxing is not prosecuted because it's not in the public interest and would fall down in court as such. Sado-masochism is less public and there is a certain stigma about it in some quarters as being ' weird' or 'unnatural' etc, so it is.

[dan_dan]

Ive never had any issues with psychiatric condition at all, but no, my solicitor has not mentioned it.

ive just had a browse through the cps website and it states that to pursue even just an ABH charge (let alone to consider what punishment is fit), a main determining factor is the seriousness of the injuries:

"In determining whether or not the injuries are serious, relevant factors may include, for example, the fact that there has been significant medical intervention and/or permanent effects have resulted. Examples may include cases where there is the need for a number of stitches (but not the superficial application of steri-strips) or a hospital procedure under anaesthetic."

The only medical attention she required was a line of steri-strips across the cuts (of which I also received 10 of these on mine) Hopefully this will be something in my favour.

[NOX]

BTW I'm familiar with the contents of the link relating to the bdsm case.

[mickrog]

http://www.zazzle.co....ad-144521779092746390 she might like this

[dan_dan]

This is what they need for GBH:

"Grievous bodily harm means really serious bodily harm. It is for the jury to decide whether the harm is really serious. However, examples of what would usually amount to really serious harm include:

injury resulting in permanent disability, loss of sensory function or visible disfigurement;

broken or displaced limbs or bones, including fractured skull, compound fractures, broken cheek bone, jaw, ribs, etc;

injuries which cause substantial loss of blood, usually necessitating a transfusion or result in lengthy treatment or incapacity;

serious psychiatric injury. As with assault occasioning actual bodily harm, appropriate expert evidence is essential to prove the injury"

I think a few cuts that were patched up with some basic first aid equipment dont qualify under this

[New Judge]

It has long been established that one cannot give consent to being assaulted. The special case of the sport of boxing is covered in law:

http://www.ambisitham.com/art_timesFight.html

The doctor who examined the alleged victim is in no position to declare whether the injuries were inflicted with consent or not.

The matter of whether to “press charges” does not rest with the alleged victim. It rests with the CPS. They will decide, on a two-stage test, whether to proceed. Firstly they will determine if there is a realistic chance of a conviction based on the evidence available. If so, they will decide whether a prosecution would be in the public interest. The incident as described most certainly does fall under the “Domestic Violence” category and it is CPS policy to continue with prosecutions for DV whenever possible even if the alleged victim withdraws their allegation.

Get yourself legal advice.