potential section 18 GBH

[dan_dan]

hi, i think i am in trouble. at the weekend i was texting back and forth with an on-again/off-again girlfriend and the conversation lead to her saying she would find it quite kinky to use razor blades in the bedroom. after a bit of discussion, she came over and we talked for a while then ended up in the bedroom where a razor was produced and she cut along my chest. after which i ran the blade acorss her arm then down her back (not in an aggressive, retaliatory way but more playful tit-for-tat). at first she seemed to be okay with everything, then after a while she seemed a bit more freaked out by the blood. i said i had bandages and offered to clean her up, but she said she wanted to get it sorted properly, so after a bit of small talk, she left for the hospital. (seemed a bit of an over-reaction to me at the time, but she wanted to do it). the following morning i was woken up by police who arrested me for potential GBH with intent. As you might imagine, i scared witless now as it seems if she presses charges, it could be a section 18 offence which i hear has a minimum 4 year sentence if convicted, up to life imprisonment! (i dont have any prior criminal record). i have made statements saying the whole thing was consensual, but she is now saying that it wasnt (although apparently the medical report states that it was consensual, so a doctor must have signed that off?). Im terrified, please help!

[Noraq]

Jaaaaaaysus!!

[Old_Geezer]

No, that was nails not razors. Did you not see the films over the weekend ?

[factor-fiction]

Well, have you still got the texts on your phone?

[Noraq]

=)

[dan_dan]

still got the texts (and scars!) the police have confiscated it tho, but they will back up my side of the story

[EDDIE51]

You ARE in trouble S18 is a compusory jail term .
She has the evidence of the cuts and in such cases the CPS will almost certainly decide to prosecute even if the statements are withdrawn. You need to get a good lawyer immediately but I don't expect you to have much chance.
Sorry, but if this goes to court , do you think they will believe your version ?
Neither do I !

[grasscarp]

I have been on the planet probably 3 times as long as you dan dan, but this is a first for me. Never before have I have heard of razor blades being used in foreplay. In fact the last time I heard the likes of this it was a game played by a certain Charles Manson. He is still locked up over 40 years later.

[dan_dan]

i know its serious, but im unsure about any mitigating factors i.e, she deliberately came to my house to engage in the activity, she cut me first etc. also, she has said that she has been into this kind of thing with other guys in the past (cutting, blood etc) but it was my first time. im seeing a solicitor tomorrow, but i was hoping for some insight from someone

[dan_dan]

also, after speaking with the solicitor on the phone this morning, his first question was "well, why wasnt she charged as well?" and he seems to think that there may well be grounds for a counter-prosecution. when she realises this and IF she decides to drop any charges (she is still unsure about pressing charges at all), will it make a difference to my case?. Its still not a definite S.18 as yet, but they are still gathering more info before they decide

[EDDIE51]

Mitigating factors reduce the severity of the offence , but DO NOT excuse it !
If you are convicted of a S18 you are going to jail , end of.
Mitigating factors will give you a shorter sentence , but not get you off jail. Your only chance is to offer to plead guilty to the lesser charge of a S20 if the prosecution will drop the S18. It is called 'plea bargining' and your soliciter will be able to say if there is a chance of it in your case. The advantage is that a S20 is very rarely a prison sentence , but a S18 is always a jail term.

[dan_dan]

I've been doing a bit of research on the nature of consent in the context of GBH:

"Subject to any overriding public policy objections there is a two-limb test for consent: the person giving consent must be capable of giving it in terms of their age and mental state, and, it is given fully and freely with the knowledge of the actual level of force used or pain inflicted."

When she cut me, she didnt give me any knowledge of the actual level of force used or pain inflicted, she didnt even say where she was going to cut me, or even specifically ask if she could do it, she just ran a razor across my chest when she was on top of me. if im guilty, she is also guilty. But if she realises this and doesnt want to proceed, can / will the CPS continue with the prosecution anyway?

[EDDIE51]

As I have said in cases of 'domestic violence' which covers this, it is normal for the CPS to proceed with the prosecution even if one or both participants want to withdraw statements.
This is in all probability out of your and your partners hands.

[Mojo-Jo-Jo]

Eddie much as I respect your knowledge, I can't help feeling that such an unusual event may get a second look outside of the realms of domestic violence.
I can only hope the judicial system is intelligent enough.
Firstly dan_dan, stupid! Don't do anything like it again.
Secondly, be truthful, be honest with anyone in authority who asks direct questions. Have a lawyer present to avoid silly word games for you and yes, counterprosecute.
At least if you do, you may stand a better chance of a judge holding the whole thing a bit too much to go ahead with. Hopefully.
Let's face it though, hurting each other? Permanently? For kicks? Sort that out!

[craft1948]

Maybe he was desperate.................

[EDDIE51]

Always remember that we only hear one side of the story on here, the side the questioner wants us to hear !
Two people have both got razor cuts of a severity that needed hospital treatment.
These cuts are said to be the result of sex play that went wrong!
One has now accused the other of GBH for which he has been arrested.
His defence is that the woman asked him to cut her as a form of sexual fetish in which he was cut as well.
Do you think the police/CPS are just going to forget about it ? No chance !
If the questioner thinks he has a problem now , just wait until the newspapers get hold of it! If this gets out it will be headline news for days.

[HowardKennitby]

I don't know if this was/is relevant

http://www.cirp.org/l...al/UKlaw/rvbrown1993/

[EDDIE51]

HowardK yes good link, a lot of it is relevent.
In particular the part just a few lines above the section you highlighted.
It says the Judge ruled that in such cases the consent of the victim was no defence !
Looks even worse for dan_dan, his only defence is exactly that, the girl agreed to it !

[dan_dan]

Hi again, thanks for your contributions ... i guess. I saw my solicitor this morning, and he made it clear that consent is not an issue with assault cases, either its assault or it isnt, consent does not come into it, no one can consent to being assaulted. So the fact remains, she cut me first, hence she assaulted me first. My solicitor found this point very interesting...

[dan_dan]

thats not to say that me cutting her is in any way excusable from a legal standpoint, its just that now that the issue of consent is irrelevant there are equal faults on both sides. I would think a half decent solicitor should be able to take care of the matter

[EDDIE51]

I really don't know what more to say, this is way outside my expierience.
But you did assult her by cutting her with a razor. If she insists that you started it and the cuts you have were made by her in self defence I can see you being in trouble . You say you hace texts provong your side of the story but she may come back and say you forced her to write the texts to try to get out of trouble . Just make sure you have a good solicitor who has a lot of experience and knowledge.