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Council Were Negligent When Suing My Minor Son. I Need Help From A Legal Professional.
Basically, my son was 16 years old when he owned a business. He ran up a debt of £600 in business rates. Now, when the council tried to enforce this upon him, this was done illegally. First, they did not apply a litigant friend as he was a minor, thus tried to directly sue him for failure to pay.
However my concern is, when they summonsed him to court, they did not follow the civil procedure rules (contrary to MOJ) which state that if a minor is to be summonsed to court, there must be the appointment of a child litigant friend for it to go to court. The council did not appoint one and subsequently got a judgement out upon him. The CAB and my MP agreed this was not correct, and they breached the civil procedure rules as a minor could not be directly sued for debt without a friend in law.
The council state now because he is 18 they can enforce it. However, because the judgement was illegal is there any cause of action?
However my concern is, when they summonsed him to court, they did not follow the civil procedure rules (contrary to MOJ) which state that if a minor is to be summonsed to court, there must be the appointment of a child litigant friend for it to go to court. The council did not appoint one and subsequently got a judgement out upon him. The CAB and my MP agreed this was not correct, and they breached the civil procedure rules as a minor could not be directly sued for debt without a friend in law.
The council state now because he is 18 they can enforce it. However, because the judgement was illegal is there any cause of action?
Answers
Good luck- you seem to be well on the way to getting this resolved and I'm sure your son will be grateful for all your efforts on his behalf
16:19 Thu 03rd Apr 2014
Questioning the legality is not the same as culpable refusal.
What I want is evidence/advice backing up the CAB and my suspicions in order to get it set aside on error of law. The council should not get away with failing to adhere to legislation! my MP agrees with me, but is not legally trained so cannot offer me legal advice!
What I want is evidence/advice backing up the CAB and my suspicions in order to get it set aside on error of law. The council should not get away with failing to adhere to legislation! my MP agrees with me, but is not legally trained so cannot offer me legal advice!
either he is refusing to pay because he feels the judgement is illegal
but then you say "on no level is he refusing to pay"
it can't be both, can it?
a thought that just occurred to me is have you used the council's complaints service? that might be a good thing to do, and give you some idea of the likelihood of success
but then you say "on no level is he refusing to pay"
it can't be both, can it?
a thought that just occurred to me is have you used the council's complaints service? that might be a good thing to do, and give you some idea of the likelihood of success
I do appreciate your predicament & note that you & your son do not have £600 however you must surely realize that by running a business whether your son was old enough or not he did in fact incur a debt of £600 & so by law is duty bound to pay it. My suggestion to you is that you & your son approach the court & offer to pay the debt in instalments over a period of time. I am afraid that there is no way you can avoid paying the £600 & to seek legal redress you will be increasing the debt from £600 to who knows what figure, & if you cannot find the money now, how will you possibly be able to pay a much larger sum ?.
Again, thank you SandyRoe.
The CAB did say that they tend to only get judgement out if my son refused to pay. I will take your advice on board and get him to write outlining the situation.
black_cat: He is not refusing to pay, he simply cannot. I am the one who is challenging the council (not directly as the bill is not mine). And from what I have received it's apparent that the judgement was illegal. Once I get the answers and tell me son to reply with the evidence I have found.
Now, my son has still not told the Council he will not pay. He cannot due to the situation.
I fear that the Council will find some way to try and get out of this. I want to get enough evidence so that they don't have a chance to fight it. Great advice though, black_cat.
The CAB did say that they tend to only get judgement out if my son refused to pay. I will take your advice on board and get him to write outlining the situation.
black_cat: He is not refusing to pay, he simply cannot. I am the one who is challenging the council (not directly as the bill is not mine). And from what I have received it's apparent that the judgement was illegal. Once I get the answers and tell me son to reply with the evidence I have found.
Now, my son has still not told the Council he will not pay. He cannot due to the situation.
I fear that the Council will find some way to try and get out of this. I want to get enough evidence so that they don't have a chance to fight it. Great advice though, black_cat.
Spot on again SandyRoe.
I am desperately working hard to see If I have a case, I am searching the internet at every opportunity. The council's neglect caused major stress including my son quitting college and stop eating. I believe in law they have a duty of care for young people, and that they acted beyond their powers in (1) getting a illegal judgment and (2) inflicting distress by giving him false information (imprisonment etc.)
I am desperately working hard to see If I have a case, I am searching the internet at every opportunity. The council's neglect caused major stress including my son quitting college and stop eating. I believe in law they have a duty of care for young people, and that they acted beyond their powers in (1) getting a illegal judgment and (2) inflicting distress by giving him false information (imprisonment etc.)
"I fear that the Council will find some way to try and get out of this."
like you are doing, you mean?
i think you need to be very, very clear on whether he is refusing to pay because the judgement was not given correctly, or if he is going to pay when he can afford it. You have suggested both things in this post, but they can't both be correct
like you are doing, you mean?
i think you need to be very, very clear on whether he is refusing to pay because the judgement was not given correctly, or if he is going to pay when he can afford it. You have suggested both things in this post, but they can't both be correct
-- answer removed --
IF you/your son challenge this and win two things will happen.
1. It will cost you far more than £600 in legal fees which you/your son can not reclaim but have to pay in advance.
2. The council will simply issue a new summons now that he is 18.
The only viable option is to accept the debt but offer to pay in instalments as you have been told. They will probably settle for £1 or £2 a week.
1. It will cost you far more than £600 in legal fees which you/your son can not reclaim but have to pay in advance.
2. The council will simply issue a new summons now that he is 18.
The only viable option is to accept the debt but offer to pay in instalments as you have been told. They will probably settle for £1 or £2 a week.
There is an old saying. "When in a hole, stop digging". But it is amazing how we do just the opposite. Every shovel full has a label. "Oh dear, what if; can't cope; worse today; will never get over this; his/her/their fault; shan't sleep tonight; what's that pain; maybe it's...and so on. Instead of putting the shovel down and looking at how we can get out of the hole we go on digging thus getting deeper and deeper. Suddenly, a ladder appears. It is labelled "Hope". There is a way out of the hole but are we too afraid to climb the ladder? At the top we would have to face, not only ourselves but responsibilities which, at the present moment, we could not cope with. So we hesitate. Perhaps after all it is safer in the hole. no one can get at us; but the reverse is that neither can we communicate with them. First of all stop digging. Pause. Take a look around. When did I start digging and why? How deep am I? (No matter how deep the ladder is always long enough. It may just take longer to climb up). The hole is of our own making and it is us who must climb out. But we CAN climb out with the help of friends and helpers. (And this site).There is ALWAYS a way up the ladder. Putting your foot on the first rung is the first and last step. You have begun. You may slip back on occasions but you CAN recover from that "set back", you WILL get to the top, no matter how impossible it may seem at the moment.Even if you slip to the bottom do not start digging again!! It takes courage and perseverance but YOU CAN DO IT, we all can. Do not stay in the hole! ACCEPT how you feel with all the feelings it brings. Go through them and start to climb. There is also a saying that when you hit bottom there is a big spring that throws you back up. You may not even need the ladder!!!
How did your son get a lease on the property in the first place?
It would have been illegal for an under 18 to sign a lease, did he say he was 18 and the council failed to check? or did someone over 18 sign on his behalf?
If the council issued the summons in the belife that he was 18 you/he have no case.
It would have been illegal for an under 18 to sign a lease, did he say he was 18 and the council failed to check? or did someone over 18 sign on his behalf?
If the council issued the summons in the belife that he was 18 you/he have no case.
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