Land

[chrisstrong1]

Can a planning inforcement officer demand to look in your barn for no reason iveowned it for twenty years just because I put electric in so I could put camera up as we people on our land killing chickens

[Buenchico]

Section 196A of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 states:
"Any person duly authorised in writing by a local planning authority may at any reasonable hour enter any land—

(a)to ascertain whether there is or has been any breach of planning control on the land or any other land;

(b)to determine whether any of the powers conferred on a local planning authority by this Part should be exercised in relation to the land or any other land;

(c)to determine how any such power should be exercised in relation to the land or any other land;

(d)to ascertain whether there has been compliance with any requirement imposed as a result of any such power having been exercised in relation to the land or any other land,

if there are reasonable grounds for entering for the purpose in question."

Such a right exists without a warrant but, if entry is refused, Section 196B enables the acquisition and exercise of a warrant:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1990/8/part/VII/crossheading/rights-of-entry-for-enforcement-purposes

[New Judge]

This:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/7711/319612.pdf

says that they do have right of entry:

(a) to ascertain whether there is, or has been, any breach of planning control on the land, or on any other land;
(b) to determine whether any of the LPA's enforcement powers should be exercised in relation to the land, or any other land;
(c) to determine how any such power should be exercised; and
(d) to ascertain whether there has been compliance with any requirement arising from earlier enforcement action in relation to the land, or any other land.

So best to let them in and explain what you have been doing.

[New Judge]

And Chris beat me to it !!!!!!

[chrisstrong1]

Did let him on land because he couldent find anything couple of weeks later he moved the goal post and wanted to look in the barn, when he first came he told me to take barn down as he dident think we had planning when id shown him we did in 1994 he asked if he could take a photo on his mobile as council lost documents he was not happy as he really thought it was not legal barn he has done nothing but dictate its not my fault they lost plans

[Peter Pedant]

.

I asked a long time ago when I was purchasing, whether a planning officer could come onto my land on a lawful mission and then say - Oh didnt know that, and so you have to take down something competely unrelated.....and the solicitor said no. (1980)

BUT my mother informed the council she had done something to a shed and a few months later they asked to inspect and we both didnt dare say no

wind forward another ten years - and we saw people outside with clip boards looking obliquely at our newly put up lean-to and wondered if the men were from the ministry and a neighbour had dobbed us in for illicit building. The same one who had dobbed in another neighbour four times for benefit fraud untruly and without grounds.

and finally when I gave money to a horse charity we visited and some wooden stables were in bits - ( so they could handle fewer horseys )
and that was because someone across the valley had counted too many stables on the land for the permission they had.....and had telephoned the local planning dept.....

so I think that might have happened to you
someone saw the light and very reasonably concluded without evidence you were sheltering Rumanians and dobbed you in.

Please do not go around and burn them out

So the planning enforcement officer might have had reason but just didnt want to tell you.....

long answer but I think the short answer is yes

[Peter Pedant]

and chris is there first !

[Peter Pedant]

Yeah taking photos of docs is commonplace

I complained about knotweed next door so the council
came around to me and slapped a knotweed thingey on me
you know the way they do
tbey had to do something etc

and then when I said yeah I am having it done

the man from the min got terribly excited on the subject of me hiring a firm which was not knowtweed licensed - court cases injunctions, damages - his eyes started bulging and his voice became reedier

remember I had called him in as the triffids were coming in from outside

so I showed him a contract AND a photo showing knotweed man in moon-suit spraying plant-death around

and the poor guy looked as tho he was gonna pee himself
and said can I take a photo of these docs.

so of course I said yeah go ahead....


A different species they are ( the men from the ministry I mean )
Oh did he go and enforce a notice on the people next door?
no of course not.....

[joko]

i suppose he has to be sure that the installation of electric in a barn is not the first step of turning it into living space or business etc

[chrisstrong1]

If my land was in a mess I could understand it but I called in planning consultant that said we've done nothing wrong its agriculture. Land but this planning enforcement officer saying I can't grow flowers need planning permission to start small holding which I'd saved small pension for as I'm now sixty all he was doing was telling me what I can't do going into the barn was not why he came so I feel he is taking my freedom of privacy from me because he couldent find anything else, when he came on my land first we know nothing about it he never sent a letter til after hedbeen on there

[factor-fiction]

If it's being used only for the agreed purpose I'm not sure what the problem is. Let him see what he wants to see, try not to appear as if you're worried he'll find something, and he should go away and leave you alone

[Peter Pedant]

are you in dispute with any of your neighbours by any chance ?

[chrisstrong1]

No all the residents that live around there we've known for years they are on our side so is one of the local councilors he has been up there and even he can't grasp it its only since we put electric up there I was told by one of the residents they seen councilors in there before electric went in then they waited for it to be put in then came back and told me to take barn down but I had plans on me to prove it was legal that's what got his back up

[buildersmate]

Dear me, you do seem to hold a grudge against Planning Enforcement Officers. They are only doing their job.
An agricultural barn may only be used for agricultural purposes. That does not include general storage for business or domestic paraphernalia. Putting electricity into it would not normally be a problem in itself for, say, internal lighting but if it then leads to a workshop it's the thin edge of the wedge towards a business use. Externally lighting would be a problem too as it causes light pollution in the countryside. Cameras should be OK.

[buildersmate]

....and another thing. A barn that's been there for more than four years can't be ordered to then be removed - one applies for a certificate of lawfulness. If an existing barn was used for something different, the period is ten years before a certificate of lawfulness can be applied for.

[joko]

i agree - its his job to check you are not hiding anything - and if you are being as obstrucive to him as it appears then i am not surprised he is suspicious and making all sorts of excuses to look around.

he is entitled to check until he is satisfied that you are not trying to get away with anything

[chrisstrong1]

The barn is half storage and half agriculture that's on our plans its his attitude for one and two when he first came it was the barn he wanted down they should look in there own department for plans not assume you haven't got planning permission I don't mind dealing with people that are up front and if I wanted to run a bussiness from there which I don't I would go through proper procedures and I did tell him that

[black_cat51]

good grief, you are making things unnecessarily complicated for yourself. He wants to look in your barn, he has a right to ask you, so just let him, then it will be over.

[buildersmate]

There you go then - I guessed correctly what the real issue is first time. You are admitting using a barn on agricultural land for a non-agricultural purpose. Namely storage. You assert that this was granted when you applied for permission the barn in the first instance. In my view that is most unlikely. The problem the planning authority seems to have (if I am believe your version of events) is that they have lost the original consent records they made. They are asking to see your copy. I find this somewhat implausible, but I suppose it could happen.

[buildersmate]

By the way you clearly don't understand agricultural use in relationship to barns. You can keep stuff in there directly connected to supporting the use of the land, so this could include animal shelter, animal foodstuffs, machinery associated with agricultural use etc but NOT domestic or other business related storage. THAT'S why he wants to see in your barn. I do know what I'm talking about on this - dealt with a similar situation

[kvalidir]

Buildersmate is 100% right- listen to him. If I were you I would remove anything not agricultural, give him a call make an appointment for him to come and visit you and show him your lovely agriculture only barn and then make sure he can't gain access when you aren't there. If it looks right, they'll usually assume it is right unless you make em suspicious so grit your teeth, make it look right, be nice and hopefully he'll go away.