Is it finders keepers if you are in a shop?

[Manana]

I just had an interesting talk with my daughter who told me just found a pound in the shop and this reminded me about a question that I had long ago.
If you find money in a shop who does it legally belong to? You, the owner of the shop or maybe a past customer? Are you still obligated to take it down to the police station and report it, if so is there a minimum as I'm not sure the police would like you to waste their time filling out a lot of paperwork everytime you found a penny.

[Manana]

Funny thing seadogg is had it been a thief that got a lucky guess you would've been praised many times before they scurried quicksharp out of the shop.

[whiskeryron]

If you find anything in a store you should hand it to management who should take your name & address & if the money or goods is not claimed in 30 days it can be claimed by you the finder. We were shopping in Costco yesterday & my Daughter found an envelope with a birthday card & a £20 note in the trolley we had collected from outside the premises. It had obviously been left by a previous shopper, we handed it in & our details were taken as stated above, I can only hope that the person who lost it may possibly use this site & go back to the store.Ron.

[Manana]

My daughter is a child and found the pound in a cornershop on the way home from school, would you go back and give the shopkeeper the pound, put it in a charity collection box or report it to the police?

[Buenchico]

I've found a £20 note in a local shop and, suspecting that it might be part of someone's pension money, handed it to the shopkeeper. He later told me that he'd returned it to a very tearful old lady who'd asked if anyone had found her money.

However I've also found a £20 note in a sub Post office , and handed it in. Several months later I received a registered letter, containing that money, as it had not been claimed and the Post Office rules stated that it must be returned to me. (i.e. when it was not claimed it became the property of the finder, not of the shop).

'Finders keepers' applies whenever it is not reasonably possible to re-unite the property with its owner. Section 2 of the Theft Act 1968 states:
"A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest . . . if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps".

Chris

[Manana]

Thanks buenchico, so we must take reasonable steps to find the owner so it looks like in theory even finding a penny and keeping it without looking for the owner could be classed as theft but would someone waste their time and money which both would considerably exceed a penny remains to be seen.

[joggerjayne]

The key word (as in so much of the law) is "reasonable".

If you find a 1p, you would not "reasonably" be expected to phone the Police, fill in forms at the shop, place adverts in the local paper, stick a card in the shop window, etc.

If you found a handbag in a shopping trolley containing several £100's, some jewellery, and a gold watch (but no i.d.) then you might have to take such steps.

[joggerjayne]

nb. has anyone considered the legal position if you remove someone's property from their rubbish bin without their consent?

[Manana]

Joggerjayne is there a certain amount where you'd have to make more of an effort, 2p 5p 10p 50p a pound a fiver?

[seadogg]

so the law isn't "an ass" after all JJ

[jno]

any special reason you want to know, JJ?

[joggerjayne]

The law does not tie itself down to specifics, Manana.

The law makers stick to vague words ... hence, "reasonable".

[Manana]

Joggerjayne I would've thought that once you "throw something away" with the idea that it will be incinerated or put in a landfill or indeed taken by a binman then your rights to it have gone, but then I could be wrong.

[joggerjayne]

Yes, jno ...

Because this is a thread about claiming stuff that belongs to other people, that is lying around.

A lot of stuff belonging to other people is lying around in dustbins. And, with a bin, it is easy to ascertain the owner.

If you see an item in a bin, and think you could use it, and take it ... are you a thief?

(I know the answer ... I just wonder if anyone has considered it, as we are on subject of picking up stuff belonging to other people).

[joggerjayne]

Manana ... when people put out their rubbish ... do they still care what happens to it?

(I'm steering us to the answer here)

[Manana]

Well If It's in a bin the bin is still their property so maybe in the eyes of the law It would be better to ask the owner could you have the item.

[seadogg]

Gosh! The Wombles were criminals, and allowed to corrupt the young.

[Manana]

No if It's rubbish, yes It's personal details. Is this a quiz joggerjayne as I'd like the answer as I'll be going soon.

[Buenchico]

Thanks for your reply, Manana.

You don't need to take reasonable steps to return any item of found property before you're entitled to retain it. As long as you genuinely BELIEVE (even if that belief is irrational) that the owner could not be located, you can keep the property.

It's akin to spotting something which you want in a skip outside someone's house. You don't need to ask the owner as to whether you can take it, as long as you genuinely believe that (if you did ask him) he'd give his permission. It's completely irrelevant as to whether the owner would, or would not, actually give his permission. It's your belief that counts. (The Act states "A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest . . . if he appropriates the property in the belief that he would have the other’s consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it").

Chris

[joggerjayne]

Correct, Manana.

Not just "better" ... but a legal requirement.

Your rubbish still belongs to you (ask any policeman who finds cannabis in your dustbin!).

Do you still care what happens to it? Yes ... which is why you put it in the bin, instead of throwing it on the beach. Your intention for that rubbish is that it will be collected by the binmen.

Anyone who interferes with your intended destination for your property by taking it into their own possession ... is a thief.

However ... as Chris says ... if you find something in a place where it is less easy to ascertain the id of the owner, like in a shop, then you have to ask yourself ... what is it reasonable for me to do?

The trouble is, what you think is reasonable may be different from what a Court thinks is reasonable. And guess whose opinion actually counts!

[whiskeryron]

JJ, the answer of course with regard to stuff in other people's bins is that if you see something you would like, you knock the door & ask if you may take it ( it's like stealing a gift that is meant for someone else,the material that your neighbour has placed in their bin is a gift from them to the local authority )