Computers3 mins ago
The Yorkshire Ripper Files
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This isn't the sort of programme I would normally watch, but having seen the first two parts (the final one is tonight, Thurs, at 9pm on BBC 4) I have to say I think it's a credit to the filmmaker Liza Williams to have produced such an absorbing documentary, without any sort of prurience, and with impressive research and use of archive footage. What another world the late 70s seems.
The shambles of the investigation is forensically exposed, as are the many opportunities they had to stop him - he was interviewed 9 times, but because he did not fit the idea of the perpetrator having a Sunderland accent (from the tape the police were sent, later revealed to be a hoax), he went on to murder others. The interview with one of the seven women who were attacked and survived was very moving, and the casual misogyny of the time was revealed at every turn.
An exemplary documentary, in my view, and well worth catching on iPlayer, even if it's 'not your thing'.
The shambles of the investigation is forensically exposed, as are the many opportunities they had to stop him - he was interviewed 9 times, but because he did not fit the idea of the perpetrator having a Sunderland accent (from the tape the police were sent, later revealed to be a hoax), he went on to murder others. The interview with one of the seven women who were attacked and survived was very moving, and the casual misogyny of the time was revealed at every turn.
An exemplary documentary, in my view, and well worth catching on iPlayer, even if it's 'not your thing'.
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"Try to get on with their lives regardless". That just doesn't happen.
I knew one of his victims. I saw what it did to her parents. I saw the constant sorrow in their faces and I watched her dad age with the anguish of what had happened to his little girl. His early deaths came as no surprise. His wife is still alive but living a totally different life to the one she and her husband had planned for their little family. So no, they didn't carry on regardless.
I knew one of his victims. I saw what it did to her parents. I saw the constant sorrow in their faces and I watched her dad age with the anguish of what had happened to his little girl. His early deaths came as no surprise. His wife is still alive but living a totally different life to the one she and her husband had planned for their little family. So no, they didn't carry on regardless.
Agchristie, my sister committed suicide, and obviously I knew her very well. But I, and the rest of the family, still don't know why she did it. We, of course, know all the ups and downs of her life and all the situations she encountered over the years; however, we don't know the definite precise, proximate, reason for her act. So I'm suggesting that because you know someone doesn't mean that you completely understand their motivations and reasons for doing something.
One of his siblings vehemently objected to a book he wrote. If you want the details, look for them yourself.
I never suggested it was that that caused the suicide. I believe they were quite close. I remember watching a program with both of them and I seem to recall her having some kind of treatment. Possibly acupuncture.
Even if Wilma hadn’t met such an unpleasant and timely end, I seriously doubt those 4 children would have had the best upbringing.
Maybe the moon landings wasn’t the best comparison, I was just trying to point out that something well documented can make us think we actually ‘remember’ more than we do.
And yes, it is just an opinion, but I stand by the opinion that some people do use a tragedy: Some may do good with it, whilst at the same time saying “this happened to me - give me sympathy” and others use it as an excuse. “I was abused, so I’m an alcoholic/junkie/criminal”
Cruel and callous? Maybe. Or maybe just not given over to gushing emotion for something that doesn’t affect me.
You’re obviously on your high horse about this one, andy-hughes, so I could bat this one back and forth for ages, but this will be the last I say on the matter.
You have your opinions and I have mine.
We all have crap in our lives to some degree, but we all react differently.
And yes, of course the murder of a parent is about as crap as it gets. Lots of other children lost parents to Sutcliffe too, but you really hear about them.
I never suggested it was that that caused the suicide. I believe they were quite close. I remember watching a program with both of them and I seem to recall her having some kind of treatment. Possibly acupuncture.
Even if Wilma hadn’t met such an unpleasant and timely end, I seriously doubt those 4 children would have had the best upbringing.
Maybe the moon landings wasn’t the best comparison, I was just trying to point out that something well documented can make us think we actually ‘remember’ more than we do.
And yes, it is just an opinion, but I stand by the opinion that some people do use a tragedy: Some may do good with it, whilst at the same time saying “this happened to me - give me sympathy” and others use it as an excuse. “I was abused, so I’m an alcoholic/junkie/criminal”
Cruel and callous? Maybe. Or maybe just not given over to gushing emotion for something that doesn’t affect me.
You’re obviously on your high horse about this one, andy-hughes, so I could bat this one back and forth for ages, but this will be the last I say on the matter.
You have your opinions and I have mine.
We all have crap in our lives to some degree, but we all react differently.
And yes, of course the murder of a parent is about as crap as it gets. Lots of other children lost parents to Sutcliffe too, but you really hear about them.
It would appear that Bigbad is keen to follow a similar route to the police investigation.
That is, to make some seriously tall unsubstantiated assumptions based on superficial knowledge of the person you are talking about, and then ignore concrete evidence from people with actual first-hand knowledge, that shows your prejudices for what they are - deciding on someone else's life and behaviour based entirely on your own lofty and irrational perceptions.
Happily, in this case, Bigbad is merely appearing foolish on a website, but it's attitudes like that which caused the derailment of the police investigation, and led to additional deaths that could feasibly have been prevented.
That's before we get to the victims that prompted this section of the debate in the first place.
That is, to make some seriously tall unsubstantiated assumptions based on superficial knowledge of the person you are talking about, and then ignore concrete evidence from people with actual first-hand knowledge, that shows your prejudices for what they are - deciding on someone else's life and behaviour based entirely on your own lofty and irrational perceptions.
Happily, in this case, Bigbad is merely appearing foolish on a website, but it's attitudes like that which caused the derailment of the police investigation, and led to additional deaths that could feasibly have been prevented.
That's before we get to the victims that prompted this section of the debate in the first place.
Just one more quick one, as more answers since I started typing my last reply:
gness, I have known people that have had horrendous things happen to them, but they have in fact, got on with their lives regardless and not used their circumstances for any reason. Good or bad. And when I said “try to get on with their lives regardless” I prefaced it with “some folk” not just Ripper victims families.
gness, I have known people that have had horrendous things happen to them, but they have in fact, got on with their lives regardless and not used their circumstances for any reason. Good or bad. And when I said “try to get on with their lives regardless” I prefaced it with “some folk” not just Ripper victims families.
Bigbad - // Maybe the moon landings wasn’t the best comparison, I was just trying to point out that something well documented can make us think we actually ‘remember’ more than we do. //
Your comparison is not facile because of the difference in circumstances, it is nonsense because you are comparing a historical event which had nothing but positive results for everyone involved, with a child trying to assimilate not only the death of his mother, but the entire horrible history of events of which her death was a part.
Your comparison is not facile because of the difference in circumstances, it is nonsense because you are comparing a historical event which had nothing but positive results for everyone involved, with a child trying to assimilate not only the death of his mother, but the entire horrible history of events of which her death was a part.
Bigbad - // gness, I have known people that have had horrendous things happen to them, but they have in fact, got on with their lives regardless and not used their circumstances for any reason... //
The point of my response is that you have no idea whatsoever how anyone you are not intimately aquatinted with, is getting on with their lives, how it has affected them, and still does affect them.
You are making sweeping statements based on your perception of a stranger, which have been swiftly demolished by people who actually do know better.
Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion - but people pontificating about someone they know from the media does not entitle them to the moral high ground.
The point of my response is that you have no idea whatsoever how anyone you are not intimately aquatinted with, is getting on with their lives, how it has affected them, and still does affect them.
You are making sweeping statements based on your perception of a stranger, which have been swiftly demolished by people who actually do know better.
Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion - but people pontificating about someone they know from the media does not entitle them to the moral high ground.
Good grief man, now I have attitudes that cause the derailment of police investigations!
Sweeping statements. Pontificating. Moral high ground. All wrong phrases to use.
All opinions just like yours.
Going a bit OTT in your usual need to show what an all round right about everything top bloke you are.
Opinions don’t count for anything in police investigations, thankfully.
Nor, even more thankfully, does hand wringing arrogance.
Blimey, I just said the program didn’t interest me, was called out for that and felt the need to reply!
agchristie, not what I meant at all. I always got the impression that Richard and Sonia were close.
Going to watch Line of Duty. Maybe we can have a row about that tomorrow!
Sweeping statements. Pontificating. Moral high ground. All wrong phrases to use.
All opinions just like yours.
Going a bit OTT in your usual need to show what an all round right about everything top bloke you are.
Opinions don’t count for anything in police investigations, thankfully.
Nor, even more thankfully, does hand wringing arrogance.
Blimey, I just said the program didn’t interest me, was called out for that and felt the need to reply!
agchristie, not what I meant at all. I always got the impression that Richard and Sonia were close.
Going to watch Line of Duty. Maybe we can have a row about that tomorrow!
sanmac - // Agchristie, my sister committed suicide, and obviously I knew her very well. But I, and the rest of the family, still don't know why she did it. //
I don't wish to de-rail the thread, but your post did prompt a response from me.
I was a Samaritan volunteer for three years, which taught me about suicide from an intellectual perspective, and I was a psychiatric patient for three months, and remain on medication thirty years later, which has taught, and continues to teach me, about suicide from a personal perspective.
That combined experience leads me to the unshakable conclusion that I believe that every single suicide takes their life for exactly the same reason - you just have to be desperate enough for death to be a welcome attractive viable alternative to living for the next sixty seconds.
That may help you, I don't know, but I have put it out on this site many many times over the years, and the older I get, the less chance there is of me ever altering that view, seriously hard won as it has been.
I don't wish to de-rail the thread, but your post did prompt a response from me.
I was a Samaritan volunteer for three years, which taught me about suicide from an intellectual perspective, and I was a psychiatric patient for three months, and remain on medication thirty years later, which has taught, and continues to teach me, about suicide from a personal perspective.
That combined experience leads me to the unshakable conclusion that I believe that every single suicide takes their life for exactly the same reason - you just have to be desperate enough for death to be a welcome attractive viable alternative to living for the next sixty seconds.
That may help you, I don't know, but I have put it out on this site many many times over the years, and the older I get, the less chance there is of me ever altering that view, seriously hard won as it has been.
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