2024 Caboodle National Books Puzzle
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The Yorkshire Ripper Files
45 Answers
This isn't the sort of programme I would normally watch, but having seen the first two parts (the final one is tonight, Thurs, at 9pm on BBC 4) I have to say I think it's a credit to the filmmaker Liza Williams to have produced such an absorbing documentary, without any sort of prurience, and with impressive research and use of archive footage. What another world the late 70s seems.
The shambles of the investigation is forensically exposed, as are the many opportunities they had to stop him - he was interviewed 9 times, but because he did not fit the idea of the perpetrator having a Sunderland accent (from the tape the police were sent, later revealed to be a hoax), he went on to murder others. The interview with one of the seven women who were attacked and survived was very moving, and the casual misogyny of the time was revealed at every turn.
An exemplary documentary, in my view, and well worth catching on iPlayer, even if it's 'not your thing'.
The shambles of the investigation is forensically exposed, as are the many opportunities they had to stop him - he was interviewed 9 times, but because he did not fit the idea of the perpetrator having a Sunderland accent (from the tape the police were sent, later revealed to be a hoax), he went on to murder others. The interview with one of the seven women who were attacked and survived was very moving, and the casual misogyny of the time was revealed at every turn.
An exemplary documentary, in my view, and well worth catching on iPlayer, even if it's 'not your thing'.
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It's grimly fascinating, isn't it?
I know that 'the past is a foreign......etc', but you can hardly credit the attitudes on display by the senior (male) Police Officers as having existed in society, can you?
And the fact that it wasn't until he started killing 'decent/respectable' women that they were much minded to do anything about it.
The final part is tonight, I shall watch it with interest.
I know that 'the past is a foreign......etc', but you can hardly credit the attitudes on display by the senior (male) Police Officers as having existed in society, can you?
And the fact that it wasn't until he started killing 'decent/respectable' women that they were much minded to do anything about it.
The final part is tonight, I shall watch it with interest.
I was interviewed twice over the murders myself as were most males living in the area. I had just graduated from Leeds University at the time and one of the addresses I lived at was Alma Road, Headingley in the Lupton flats where Jacqueline Hill was murdered. Being a student I also lived at Chapel Allerton, Hunslet , Harehills and other rougher areas of Leeds.
The interviews mainly consisted of had I seen anything, but they also asked questions like what was I wearing 4 weeks last Thursday etc and other details that you had no chance of remembering. One of my student flatmates had returned to visit his family in Liverpool at the time of one of the murders. They checked his family in Liverpool to confirm his story.
A lot of police man-power was involved and it was a very worrying time with many of my female student friends not feeling safe.
The interviews mainly consisted of had I seen anything, but they also asked questions like what was I wearing 4 weeks last Thursday etc and other details that you had no chance of remembering. One of my student flatmates had returned to visit his family in Liverpool at the time of one of the murders. They checked his family in Liverpool to confirm his story.
A lot of police man-power was involved and it was a very worrying time with many of my female student friends not feeling safe.
Amazingly, the perpetrator of the hoax - John Humble - was caught nearly 25 years later. Somebody discovered that part of the envelope he had sent the 'I'm Jack' letter in still existed, and it had some of the gummed flap intact. Modern forensic methods enabled DNA to be taken from where he had licked the flap, it was put into the national database and a match came up, as Humble's DNA had been taken for some previous unrelated offence.
He got 8 years in prison.
He got 8 years in prison.
I have also followed the series with interest.
We are all afforded the benefit of hindsight, but it is crystal clear that the lead investigator was diverted from following relevant information because he was tied into a personal battle of egos with someone who turned out to be a hoaxer.
That, combined with the dreadful misogyny that was simply normal practice in society at that time, meant that an investigation only really kicked into serious gear when victims stopped being prostitutes - the common attitude being that women who do 'that sort of thing' get what's coming to them.
We are all afforded the benefit of hindsight, but it is crystal clear that the lead investigator was diverted from following relevant information because he was tied into a personal battle of egos with someone who turned out to be a hoaxer.
That, combined with the dreadful misogyny that was simply normal practice in society at that time, meant that an investigation only really kicked into serious gear when victims stopped being prostitutes - the common attitude being that women who do 'that sort of thing' get what's coming to them.
You're welcome, ladybirder. What a grim time that was. One of the reasons I watched was that I remember playing at Bradford University at the end of the 70s and it seemed like it was all people could talk about - three (I think) of the murders were in Bradford - and warnings were given out advising women not to leave the gig on their own.
Would like to have heard more about Sonia Sutcliffe (presumably still alive), who successfully sued Private Eye for libel for implying she was trying to make money from her position by selling her story to the papers, and was awarded £600,000. Editor Ian Hislop memorably said "if that's justice, I'm a banana". It was later reduced to £60,000 on appeal.
Would like to have heard more about Sonia Sutcliffe (presumably still alive), who successfully sued Private Eye for libel for implying she was trying to make money from her position by selling her story to the papers, and was awarded £600,000. Editor Ian Hislop memorably said "if that's justice, I'm a banana". It was later reduced to £60,000 on appeal.
You’re right Ladybirder. It does take all sorts.
Didn’t you recently post how disappointing the Netflix Madeline McCann documentary was?
I agree with you: I didn’t even get through the first episode.
The Netflix Ted Bundy documentary bored me stiff too, but I’ve heard people heap praise on both programs.
The police incompetence has been well documented in The Yorkshire Ripper case before, (If only George Oldfield hadn’t concentrated on the tape recording.) And the use of the expression “innocent victim” (as per his June 1977 victim, Jayne MacDonald) is still being used with just about every tragedy today.
Some people like to spend the rest of their lives playing ‘’victim’ and I would put Richard McCann (His first known murder victim Wilma’s son) in this category.
Ditto, Samantha, the daughter of Veronica "Carole" Anne Packman, who has spent over 30 years crying on cue, and has even taught her son to do the same!
There have been several programs with the snivelling Samantha, the most recent being :
https:/
I could give you a long list of TV programs that didn’t do it for me, but have been liked by others, and a long list of programs that I have lapped up that others disliked.
Interest, boredom and appeal are all subjective.
I agree with you: I didn’t even get through the first episode.
The Netflix Ted Bundy documentary bored me stiff too, but I’ve heard people heap praise on both programs.
The police incompetence has been well documented in The Yorkshire Ripper case before, (If only George Oldfield hadn’t concentrated on the tape recording.) And the use of the expression “innocent victim” (as per his June 1977 victim, Jayne MacDonald) is still being used with just about every tragedy today.
Some people like to spend the rest of their lives playing ‘’victim’ and I would put Richard McCann (His first known murder victim Wilma’s son) in this category.
Ditto, Samantha, the daughter of Veronica "Carole" Anne Packman, who has spent over 30 years crying on cue, and has even taught her son to do the same!
There have been several programs with the snivelling Samantha, the most recent being :
https:/
I could give you a long list of TV programs that didn’t do it for me, but have been liked by others, and a long list of programs that I have lapped up that others disliked.
Interest, boredom and appeal are all subjective.
The amount of missed opportunities and discarded evidence(in the form of victim statements and ID photofit’s) was shockingly staggering.
West Yorkshire Police made the Keystone Cops look like a crack outfit by comparison.
That senior officers were initially praised was shocking, when in reality many more women suffered at the hands of Sutcliffe as a result of their incompetence.
West Yorkshire Police made the Keystone Cops look like a crack outfit by comparison.
That senior officers were initially praised was shocking, when in reality many more women suffered at the hands of Sutcliffe as a result of their incompetence.
I just think, andy-hughes, that Richard McCann has spent his life ‘being’ a Ripper victim’s child, and has milked it for all it’s worth.
Sometimes, apparently, to the detriment of his siblings. One of whom, I believe, committed suicide.
Some folk use victim status as an excuse for getting nowhere in life, others use it to get somewhere, while most just try and get on with their lives regardless.
Richard was just five when Wilma was murdered.
How much does he really remember, I wonder?
I can only liken it to the moon landings. I was around, but too young to remember, but I know all about it because it’s all so well documented.
Sometimes, apparently, to the detriment of his siblings. One of whom, I believe, committed suicide.
Some folk use victim status as an excuse for getting nowhere in life, others use it to get somewhere, while most just try and get on with their lives regardless.
Richard was just five when Wilma was murdered.
How much does he really remember, I wonder?
I can only liken it to the moon landings. I was around, but too young to remember, but I know all about it because it’s all so well documented.
Bigbad - // I just think, andy-hughes, that Richard McCann has spent his life ‘being’ a Ripper victim’s child, and has milked it for all it’s worth.
Sometimes, apparently, to the detriment of his siblings. One of whom, I believe, committed suicide. //
I'm not sure you have any evidence to back up what is, on face value, just your opinion on that.
// Some folk use victim status as an excuse for getting nowhere in life, others use it to get somewhere, while most just try and get on with their lives regardless. //
I have no knowledge of the gentleman, but it is clear that he has built a life for himself, including a wife and family, so he does appear to be getting on with his life, although I doubt that anyone in his situation does that 'regardless'.
// Richard was just five when Wilma was murdered.
How much does he really remember, I wonder? //
Probably very little, but he was a little boy who lost his mother, and that is a tragedy, whatever the circumstances. The fact that the circumstances were a notorious serial killer acting out his bizarre fantasies is something a five-year-old would not grasp, but he will remember the loss of his mother for what it was, a massive tragedy in his young life.
// I can only liken it to the moon landings. I was around, but too young to remember, but I know all about it because it’s all so well documented. //
Then you have a seriously strange way of looking for comparisons in terms of circumstances and effect.
If you really imagine that a historic event that happened thousands of miles away (and involved no fatalities) compares with the loss to more than a dozen families of a loved mother and wife through psychotic violent death, then you need to examine your comparison strategy, closely.
Any child losing a mum at five is a tragedy, growing up and slowly learning, understanding and coming to terms with the circumstances of this woman's loss to her children, has to be far more difficult.
Your apparent perception that this man sees himself as a 'victim', or trades on his mother's death, seems to be both callous and cruel, unless you have evidence to back up your stance, which I would be interested to see.
As to your notion that this is comparable to the moon landings because it is a part of history (and there the similarity ends!) is almost as bizarre as it is cold and unfeeling.
Sometimes, apparently, to the detriment of his siblings. One of whom, I believe, committed suicide. //
I'm not sure you have any evidence to back up what is, on face value, just your opinion on that.
// Some folk use victim status as an excuse for getting nowhere in life, others use it to get somewhere, while most just try and get on with their lives regardless. //
I have no knowledge of the gentleman, but it is clear that he has built a life for himself, including a wife and family, so he does appear to be getting on with his life, although I doubt that anyone in his situation does that 'regardless'.
// Richard was just five when Wilma was murdered.
How much does he really remember, I wonder? //
Probably very little, but he was a little boy who lost his mother, and that is a tragedy, whatever the circumstances. The fact that the circumstances were a notorious serial killer acting out his bizarre fantasies is something a five-year-old would not grasp, but he will remember the loss of his mother for what it was, a massive tragedy in his young life.
// I can only liken it to the moon landings. I was around, but too young to remember, but I know all about it because it’s all so well documented. //
Then you have a seriously strange way of looking for comparisons in terms of circumstances and effect.
If you really imagine that a historic event that happened thousands of miles away (and involved no fatalities) compares with the loss to more than a dozen families of a loved mother and wife through psychotic violent death, then you need to examine your comparison strategy, closely.
Any child losing a mum at five is a tragedy, growing up and slowly learning, understanding and coming to terms with the circumstances of this woman's loss to her children, has to be far more difficult.
Your apparent perception that this man sees himself as a 'victim', or trades on his mother's death, seems to be both callous and cruel, unless you have evidence to back up your stance, which I would be interested to see.
As to your notion that this is comparable to the moon landings because it is a part of history (and there the similarity ends!) is almost as bizarre as it is cold and unfeeling.
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