Technology1 min ago
A ‘Point Of View’
42 Answers
Bernardine Evaristo on today’s BBC R4 ‘Point of view’ :
https:/
I like her writing, mostly I like her views, but not today.
She talks about women’s bodies and society’s attitudes to them. But her conclusions go astray, in my opinion. She does not criticise women wearing ‘sexy’ clothes or make-up, only that models for this sort of costume are habitually thin!
This jumps the gun. The first question must be “should women (or men) have to titillate themselves, to decorate their faces and bodies for whatever reason?” I know women who have never worn make-up, who have never worn revealing clothes - normal women, in other words.
Evaristo seems to have thrown in her lot with the ‘can’t beat them so join them’ stream of feminist consciousness, which is a great shame.
https:/
I like her writing, mostly I like her views, but not today.
She talks about women’s bodies and society’s attitudes to them. But her conclusions go astray, in my opinion. She does not criticise women wearing ‘sexy’ clothes or make-up, only that models for this sort of costume are habitually thin!
This jumps the gun. The first question must be “should women (or men) have to titillate themselves, to decorate their faces and bodies for whatever reason?” I know women who have never worn make-up, who have never worn revealing clothes - normal women, in other words.
Evaristo seems to have thrown in her lot with the ‘can’t beat them so join them’ stream of feminist consciousness, which is a great shame.
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Yes mamya, Aunt Polly.
But I think the essential thing is CHOICE. Young women back in the 60s and 70s seemed to have very little choice in the matter - you wore make-up, you wore these or those sort of clothes, you did this or that sort of job, and so on. That was what we (my sisters and me) were fighting against.
And the problem I found with Evaristo's line was that it sounded as if it had been written in 1969! Surely 50 years of feminist thought has moved us on just a bit from those days?
Normal or not, I don't know, and probably the wrong adjective. But the argument about adorning one's face or body has not been resolved, and needs constant airing, apparently!
A
But I think the essential thing is CHOICE. Young women back in the 60s and 70s seemed to have very little choice in the matter - you wore make-up, you wore these or those sort of clothes, you did this or that sort of job, and so on. That was what we (my sisters and me) were fighting against.
And the problem I found with Evaristo's line was that it sounded as if it had been written in 1969! Surely 50 years of feminist thought has moved us on just a bit from those days?
Normal or not, I don't know, and probably the wrong adjective. But the argument about adorning one's face or body has not been resolved, and needs constant airing, apparently!
A
allen you are treading on dangerous ground here as women are complex creatures.
AB is extremely lucky in having someone like me who has studied and appreciated that part of humanity known as women.
Being handsome and rich has helped as I have been hugely successful with women and they have adored me, but I am still willing to learn.
This is a complex subject and I will try and precis it.
//////AuntPollyGreyAllen I think you will find most 'normal' women enjoy wearing nice clothes and makeup and do it to make themselves feel good, not others.//////
I partly agree with APG, most women do use make up to feel good and confident.
Many women do so for added attraction to the opposite sex and some women feel that nothing will are them feel confident or indeed attractive to the opposite sex and they are probably right and their only hope is to find an unattractive man.
Mrs sqad would not go anywhere without make up and suitably clothed and I have known her change to the bins or go for a walk.She is still confident, attractive woman who uses facial adornment judiciously.
AB is extremely lucky in having someone like me who has studied and appreciated that part of humanity known as women.
Being handsome and rich has helped as I have been hugely successful with women and they have adored me, but I am still willing to learn.
This is a complex subject and I will try and precis it.
//////AuntPollyGreyAllen I think you will find most 'normal' women enjoy wearing nice clothes and makeup and do it to make themselves feel good, not others.//////
I partly agree with APG, most women do use make up to feel good and confident.
Many women do so for added attraction to the opposite sex and some women feel that nothing will are them feel confident or indeed attractive to the opposite sex and they are probably right and their only hope is to find an unattractive man.
Mrs sqad would not go anywhere without make up and suitably clothed and I have known her change to the bins or go for a walk.She is still confident, attractive woman who uses facial adornment judiciously.
Women who slop around in trackies with no makeup have the right to do so without being criticised. However, women who like to wear smart clothes and makeup should be given the same support, not treated as narcistic or self-obsessed. 'Feminists' often embrace the former and condemn the latter as frivolous behaviour aimed at attracting men.
I suspect you did mean titivate as you continued with "...to decorate their faces and bodies for whatever reason...", whereas your copied definition of titillate is far more specific.
I have listened to the link, all 9 mins 48 seconds of it, and see the comments made as fair enough. She has sought to kick over the traces of what is deemed by some to be the only acceptable, desired female form (which I would call tosh and nonsense, but who would be interested in my pov?)
Nothing wrong with this broadcast, imo. What would Botticelli's Birth of Venus have looked like without the female curves? I do so agree with the remark about bottles of sherry though - unless it is for a really good trifle.
I have listened to the link, all 9 mins 48 seconds of it, and see the comments made as fair enough. She has sought to kick over the traces of what is deemed by some to be the only acceptable, desired female form (which I would call tosh and nonsense, but who would be interested in my pov?)
Nothing wrong with this broadcast, imo. What would Botticelli's Birth of Venus have looked like without the female curves? I do so agree with the remark about bottles of sherry though - unless it is for a really good trifle.
Evaristo has obviously never looked at the many many web-sites promoting 'plus size' clothing. They even have plus sized models on the couture catwalks these days.
https:/
https:/
// what would be an "invalid" point of view?//
oh I love challenges said Alice
no actually she said riddle but what the hell this is AB
"this point of view is not valid" - works innit
if the pov is valid then as stated it "is not valid"
and if it is invalid - then the statement is true and it is valid
ter deaah - you wanted an invalid statement
[basically - make a statement self referential and negate it)
oh I love challenges said Alice
no actually she said riddle but what the hell this is AB
"this point of view is not valid" - works innit
if the pov is valid then as stated it "is not valid"
and if it is invalid - then the statement is true and it is valid
ter deaah - you wanted an invalid statement
[basically - make a statement self referential and negate it)
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