Is This Fair

[lankeela]

"BBC Two's Mastermind presented by new host Clive Myrie is particularly interested in receiving applications from under-represented groups for the next series!"

Should they not take applications equally from everyone that applies?

[emmie]

for some perhaps the way out of a poor background, is by taking up a sport, chances are that black men and women will likely choose athletics or football and not swimming. White swimmers do dominate i agree. how do you encourage more black people into the pool, no idea.

[Mozz71]

By encouraging those of different ethnicities to take up the sports at a young age? Much like Mr Myrie has encouraged those of different ethnicities to give Mastermind a go.

[Mozz71]

Sorry, above reply was to Dave.

[emmie]

perhaps, but if you come from a poor background, whats the chances of you being able to get on the rung of the ladder so to speak. If Clive Myrie can encourge some to participate then all well and good.
As to some who enter the arena of sport, perhaps they are more likely to see that athletics or paricularly football if you are good pays better than swimming.

[ToraToraTora]

dave: "...... the vast majority of competitive swimmers are white. How do we fix that?" - It's obvious dave, swimming must be racist, PMSL! You never see a BAME swimmer.....well except tis fella, who actually won an Olympic heat!

[Mozz71]

Athletics doesn't, but I get what you mean. In the States (I'm sure other countries do it too) they have so many sports-based colleges and universities, dedicated to things like tennis, athletics or golf, as well the traditional "big three" US sports (American football, baseball and basketball), all of which have diverse leagues. Maybe that's something that could be embraced in other sports.

[emmie]

sport is cut throat, you have to be very good for one thing and if young have parents who will 100percent support you - swimming, diving must be two incredibly difficult sports to succeed in, considering like ice skating there are very very early morning training sessions, and late night too. at least in football you have perhaps more of a chance of success if you are of a disadvantaged background.

[Mozz71]

You should take a look at Eric the Eel's background Tora, makes interesting reading. He only learned to swim eight months prior, and only had access to a 15m pool for an hour each morning. By the time of the 2004 Olympics, he'd taken almost a minute off his time (even though a visa error meant he didn't compete).

[douglas9401]

Yeah, but anyway, Mastermind...

[emmie]

Mastermind will continue with or without Clive Myrie, if he wants diversity, then he should encourage more people of colour to join in.

[naomi24]

According to the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), poor white boys are the most disadvantaged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-34667100

Love Only Connect.

[Mozz71]

Absolutely agree Emms. You look at black elite athletes in more "traditionally white" sports, and it's people like Tiger Woods, Lewis Hamilton and the Williams sisters, whose parents were to the point of fanatical with their devotion to making sure their kids rose to the top.

With team games such as football, rugby and cricket, there's more a case of joining clubs at a similar age, which is probably why they're more diverse.

[ToraToraTora]

yes mozz, I did know he carried on and vastly improved. It was because of Eric the Eel and Terry the Tortoise et al that they introduced minimum standards. At the time Eric was their best (only?) swimmer and thus was allowed to compete, even though he nearly didn't make it! 100m is a long way when you start swimming.

[Mozz71]

Interesting study Naomi, although it seems more reliant on financial background than on ethnicity. Perhaps kids from poorer backgrounds are just less academic, although I suspect they have other responsibilities and concerns outside of school that impacts on their learning.

[Mozz71]

Absolutely Tora. Reading his Wiki page, it seems that he was invited to the games as the Olympic Committee were trying to do exactly what Emmie and I were discussing: encouraging poorer countries to compete. I guess in that sense, and judging from his subsequent improvement, it worked.

[naomi24]

Wouldn't that apply across the board? I hear plenty about disadvantaged people from ethnic minorities but rather less about the rest. The question here is 'Is this fair?', so shouldn't we be looking at the wider picture?

[10ClarionSt]

Why is anyone bothered about any of this? Just get on with it. Apply, or don't apply.

[Mozz71]

Well, I agree that all disadvantaged kids should be helped to achieve the best than they can, regardless of ethnicity. I do notice that when they kids are above the "free school meals" level, black and white are virtually identical. Make you wonder if it's that white kids suffer worse in poverty, or if black kids recieve more academic help in those circumstances? I don't know the answers, but it's clear that they all need some help.

[jim360]

// Jim... how many people of colour were on your University Challenge team? //

None, but in a sample size of four it isn't altogether surprising (I'd also like to point out that I wasn't involved in the selection process, and I'm pretty sure that barely a dozen people tried to join the team anyway). A more interesting question would be how many people of colour were in the overall field, ie the 96 players (and any alternates) from that season.

To an extent, Mastermind (and UC, Only Connect etc) are the wrong places to tackle the issue. It's similar to the Olympics examples, eg "Eric the Eel". What's more important is to try and encourage wider participation at the ground level, eg at pub quizzes, or by creating other quizzing events that allow more people to take part if they wish.

[naomi24]

//To an extent, Mastermind (and UC, Only Connect etc) are the wrong places to tackle the issue. //

Why? Do you think ethnic minorities are incapable of competing in those competitions?

First of all we have to decide whether or not there is an issue to tackle - and frankly, I don’t think there is. Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps many people from ethnic minorities just don’t want to enter quizzes? It seems to me that those concerned about it aren’t from ethnic minorities. I don’t hear them complaining, just as I don’t hear them complaining about calling Christmas Christmas instead of something aimed at diversity like Winterval. When it was suggested that the wide open spaces in this country were solely the domain of white people I recall reading a letter from an Indian lady who asked why on earth would anyone want to frequent those places? It’s not something they do in their own countries and it’s not something the majority of them want to do anywhere else. Why do those baying for ‘fairness’ assume that everyone wants to do as they do? They don’t - but they’re as welcome as anyone else if they so choose. No one in this country is excluded from anything that is open to everyone else. This fluffy, fussy crusade for inclusivity really is utter nonsense.