Without due car and attention for speeding ??- Scotland

[bbigman2000]

Hello, I have been charged with driving carelessly and without due care and consideration for other road users.

However my only offence was speeding, the police have written in there summary of evidence that I was travelling at an estimated 60mph in a 30 zone.

There was no traffic on the road, I was NOT doing 60mph, I was actually doing 45mph, yes bad I know but it is very easy in a 450bhp Jeep, there is NO speed recording equipment involved and no evidence of that nature,.

The evidence arises solely from the eye witness guess of two cops.

I have got a �2000 a day lawyer on my case, however I am still NOT convinced we are following the correct route, by going for a plea bargain ??

Thank you.

[kempie]

Is your question what fee do you think will be levied by the lawyer who convinces you his is the correct route?

[Ethel]

If you are not prepared to take the advice of your expensive lawyer, you are hardly going to take any notice of free advice from strangers.

However, the evidence of the police officers will stand up in court. They have no reason to lie - they will gain nothing from it.

[bbigman2000]

No Sir, My question is How can the police possibly calculate speed by eye ?

And how when I was not careless, or inconvieniencing anyone on the road (there was no one) and no accident or errors occured in my driving can they possibly charge me with carless driving ?

It would seem, the police can charge you with what ever they want, and then get away with it ?

And should in the opinion of anyone reading who has a legal background, should I be having to face this in court ? do the police/prosecution have a case against me and has anyone ever been done for speeding on a careless driving charge when no evidence from laser or forensics has been given ?

[bbigman2000]

Thats just it, one could consider that expensive lawyers are happy to take there fee for one day in court ? rather than going to trial and having two or three appearances ?

And on the contrary, if any other road traffic lawyer reading this, Might be able to clarify my position and if they feel I should be going not guilty then I would sack my lawyer and get somone who will take this case all the way.

So all opinions are very welcome from anyone, thanks.

[bbigman2000]

Ethel, thanks and just to add a little more, nobody would like to think a police officer could lie, however they could have been mistaken ? Can somone, police officer or not possibly judge the speed of a moving vehicle accuratley ?

And of course, one of these particular police officers had a very severe bad attitude, I am a business man employing 140 people and very polite and professional in what I do, I was overwhelmed with the sheer attitude of one of these particular officers, and I cannot help feel that he wanted to throw the book at me and really SHOW ME !!

I walked away from that incident literally shaken, I have always held the police with such respect, I was shocked to be treated in that fashion, could jealousy have been an issue ? Brand new very expensive high performance 4x4, I just cannot help but feel that may be the case.

[Ethel]

They certainly wouldn't be jealous of your car - it is ridiculous to think anybody would be.

They would have followed you for some distance. Maybe the fact that you didn't see them in your rear view mirror and slowed down was indication of lack of due care and attention.

[gina32]

sniff sniff, i can smell it from here!

[bbigman2000]

Ok thanks Ethel,
But no they were sitting parrallel to a road I was travelling along, and I went past them, as they sat between two blocks of flats,. they could have observed me for no more than 100 yards.

[Barmaid]

Bbigman, I don't do enough road traffic law to help you any further than Ethel already has.

However, irrespective of a lawyer's fee, he has the duty to his best by his client. That is something that all the lawyers I have any respect for adhere to strongly. Your lawyer will be in possession of all the evidence from both sides and thus he is best placed to advise. On here, we can only ever get a snap shot of what happened (and in most cases, the devil is in the detail). If your lawyer has not explained why he is advising a plea bargain - ask him to do so. Also ask him to explain whether he is suggesting you plead guilty on a limited basis (I suspect so in these circumstances).

Remember though, that you do not have to accept the advice of your lawyer. It is for you to give instructions and he will act upon those instructions (although at �2k a day, I'd take the advice!)

[bbigman2000]

Barmaid, Thank you very much, and I totally appreciate it is very difficult to get a full picture of events etc over the internet, my lawyer has explained her reasons, but I suspect I had better not post them here until after the case.

Basically though if we went head on with the fiscal, the jist of it would be to basically say that the police are lying !! It doesnt sit well, and of course the fiscal would then be narrating the full evidence against me as would the police officers,and it would sound bad im sure, so with a plea bargain, some particular wordings are being removed and will not be narrated to the bench by the fiscal.

The case is on Tuesday 23rd sept 08, so I shall post the outcome for anyone interested and for future ref for others.

Thanks again for your words Barmaid.

Anyone else feel free to chime in !! Thank you.



Appologies, the lawyer is actually costing �2000 plus vat and that is to take the case start to finish, so sorry for misleading anyone there, but of course that means she gets �2000 for the day for just opting for a plea bargain, which at the moment it looks like we are going to do.

Due to the fact that I already have 6 points this is a very important case for me !! And on that basis I have told my lawyer that If there is any indication that I will be awarded more than 5 points then I will have no option but to take it all the way, win or lose sort of thing.

[Abdulmajid]

Mmmmm, 2k a day for representing a minor traffic offence. You have been diddled.

A barrister for such a case would not even charge that.

And, I may be corrected here, isn't careless driving now classified as a crime as opposed to a motoring offence? Ergo, you will get legal aid, no? (I am out of date with new rules on this, so apologies if wrong)

[david1702198]

is this a joke??? first of all whsa jeep do you have that dose 450 bhp? secondly a lawyer that costs �2000 per day to fight what would probably be a fixed penalty and points?? come on big man you dont expect folk to beleive this c r a p do you?? by the way im in scotland and the law regarding this is no different to that of th erest of the uk im afraid!! and it woulddnt be worth the bizzies hassle to chase you as "judgement by eye" wouldnt stand up in court, evidence from a proven device to calculate speed would!!

[Gerhard]

Hello bigman,
I too drive a 4x4 with a 5 cylinder 2.4 litre engine and find that there are many people in the UK who are very much against them. Looking at your car with a 8 cylinder 6.1 litre engine will certainly bring out a dislike in people.

[bbigman2000]

Thanks for the comments, positive and negative, the Jeep is the brand new SRT 8 Jeep, 6.1 litre hemi V8, It is a 160mph vehicle capable of 60mph in 4.7 seconds.

My Lawyer is Glasgow based Graham walker, who defends all the footballers and celebs and has a high sucess rate, he has won cases for friends of mine hence I wanted the best possible advice myself.,

David !! The Scottish careless driving laws do differ from English ones.

And it is a not a fixed penalty offence im afraid.

[Ethel]

So why oh why, with the best possible legal advice you can buy (allegedly) are you questioning his advice here?

[chrisrob]

By your own admission you were speeding. Just plead guilty. Why do you need a lawyer?

[bbigman2000]

I am not pleading guilty because Yes I was speeding but NO I was not driving without due csre and attention like the prosecution claim, they have no fix on my speed.

I am looking for a second opinion on my lawyers advice that is all !!! Goodness me !!

[chrisrob]

As far as I'm concerned, driving a tank at 45mph in a 30mph zone is driving without due care! What if a child had rushed out from behind some obstacle?

[bbigman2000]

Chris, Yes I am fully aware of the possibilities, hence I am pleading guilty to a reduced plea, however I have 140 odd staff who potentially will suffer If I am banned from the road as I stand to be at present, I also have 3 children, a wife and an ex wife to look after, So yes I dont condone speeding and I will be appologising to the bench for my momentary breech of the speed limit, I must still seek to come out of this with my License so that I can continue to conduct my business and employ people.