White Paper "scotland's Future"

[Wharton]

Defence

PART 3

Chapter 6

page 232

Scotland has been home to one of the largest concentrations of nuclear weapons anywhere in the world, despite consistent and clear opposition from across civic Scotland, our churches, our trade unions and a clear majority of our elected politicians. Billions of pounds have been wasted to date on weapons that must never be used and, unless we act now, we risk wasting a further £100 billion, over its lifetime, on a new nuclear weapons systems. Trident is an affront to basic decency with its indiscriminate and inhumane power.

Will everyone read the White Paper please?

[mushroom25]

//Just before he went to bed he asked me why the first UK nuclear power station was built at Dounreay. I told him it was for safety reasons, //

when did Calder Hall move from Cumbria, Wharton?

[Wharton]

Cumbria/Scotland, what's the difference? As long as it's not near London.

[Baldric]

The imaginary French ones are a lot closer to London!

[mushroom25]

//Let's face it. If an atomic bomb went off over most Scottish towns it could do, at worst, what, about £500 worth of damage. //

I think there'd be more damage done in the ensuing fight after the shock caused several people's pints to get knocked over.

:-)

[Baldric]

Or, as I said on page 1,

Think of it as a redevelopment opportunity!

[Wharton]

The non-imaginary Trident submarines creep up and down the deep waters of the West Coast of Scotland, one of them even managed to crash into the Isle of Skye a few years ago. It wasn't armed of course we were informed, begging the question of what use is it then? Incidentally, where are they to be parked after September?

[mushroom25]

//Incidentally, where are they to be parked after September? //

it's in the white paper - there is an "aspiration" to remove them by 2020. thus after September, they will still be parked wherever they are now.

[FredPuli43]

If the UK economy was booming, how much appeal would independence have to Scots?

[Baldric]

//where are they to be parked after September?//

That ^^ assumes you become independent, and I do sincerely wish you luck with that one, the £420 + every household in England loses to subsidise the Scots will be a very welcome bonus.

[Wharton]

mushroom25/FredPuli43/Baldric - Are you Tory MPs in real life? I'll put the question another way. Outwith Scotland, where could the submarines be based?

[mushroom25]

let me put it another way. the white paper says, and Mr Salmond presumably endorses this if he didn't write it himself:-

An independent Scotland would seek an agreement on getting rid of Trident within the first term of the first Scottish parliament following independence. It would also apply to join Nato.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/26/scottish-government-publishes-white-paper-on-independence-politics-live-blog#block-529487ede4b079ca881a4b79

"seek an agreement" is clearly an aspiration, particularly since there's also an intent to join NATO. Thus this is a recognition that at this time, Scotland is the only available parking lot. This also assumes that the SNP are the governing party within the first term of the Scottish parliament, which they might not be - I mean, can you trust your fellow members of the electorate to do the right thing?

[Wharton]

The current Scottish government has identified five defence priorities for an independent Scotland, the 2nd of which is "securing the speediest safe withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Scotland". Nowhere within the white paper is there a reference to the SNP and after independence it will naturally cease to exist.

[jake-the-peg]

//Trident is an affront to basic decency with its indiscriminate and inhumane power///

It's also been a blooming good deterrent, protecting the whole UK.


- Well done Baldric - a cunning plan! -

I laughed until I cried!

It certainly is - It's certainly kept us from being invaded by all those Iraqis and Afghans poised across the Channel hasn't it?


-Who in the name of all that's sane do you think it deters?

You're still fighting the cold war!

Let's assume you're PM

You're awoken it 2 am to be told a small nuclear device has detonated in London - No missile, no aircraft, Security forces think it was brought in on a lorry


Who exactly are you going to nuke???

[plowter]

Explaining the pointlessness of the nuclear deterrent to Jim Hacker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX_d_vMKswE

[Baldric]

Jake, I take it you are unfamiliar with the expression "Tongue in cheek?"

[jake-the-peg]

Oh by the way

I've said this before

please please please please

Can we stop thinking that a ruddy great fleet of nuclear submarines that cost a fortune and serve no earthly purpose is the only way for the UK to maintain nuclear weapons


There is no inbound arsenal that is going to take out every UK airfield causing us to have to rely on a secret fleet of subs

[jake-the-peg]

Sorry Baldric *blush*

I've just heard the argument from too many true believers - Duh!

[Baldric]

Jake, no probs, Wharton and I have not declared War...........

..............yet!

[mushroom25]

//Nowhere within the white paper is there a reference to the SNP//

the white paper was published by the Scottish government which at present is formed by members of the SNP.