We Don't Really Know

[teacake44]

The true death figure from this virus, because every statement we hear is, ( people who have died ( in) hospital over the last 24hours, and the absents of the death rate in the community, at home or care home, only given the occasional mention. Are we again being lied to because people are not getting to hospital for various reasons to get the care they need like Boris as got when he needed it.

[Togo]

Here is another. Again ONS figures. All figures up to March 27th.

https://thumbsnap.com/i/Tn1vB4sf.jpg

[jim360]

Oh, there's no problem with the ONS issuing the statistics. What I'm frustrated about is your interpretation of them.

[NickorWan]

//A couple of graphs comparing date over the last few years. Notice that we didn't close down the Country in 2015 or 2018.//


As has been pointed out many times on here already, the country has been shut down because of expected hospitalisation figures, not because of expected death figures. If you are keen to compare, try and find how many were in hospital at one time for respiratory issues in those years, and many they think would be soon if we didn't shut down.

[teacake44]

First off thanks all for information and replies, @ 23.38 when I posted this there was no news of Boris going into intensive care, or any that I'd seen, I believe we were informed way past 8pm, I didn't see it until the 9pm news, up until then we were told that Boris was still doing his job from his hospital bed, having the red box delivered, again I believe this to be poppy cock, and not told the truth yet again.
If you believe this to be a low shot, then so be it. However I believe it to be a low shot for this government to put NHS workers, and everyone else on the front line knowing they could die in the absents of PPE.

Yet again this morning on TV Piers Morgan asked Michael Gove, why after three weeks NHS staff, and care homes are still waiting for PPE? His answer has been the same for three weeks, ( a distribution problem) not a supply problem. Again I believe this is a lie, we have empty roads, 750 thousand volunteers, 20 thousand army personal, who they told us weeks ago that the latter had fantastic logistic skills in implementing such an operation, and that's not counting, commercial companies. Again I believe this to be poppy cock.

The UK respond better to the truth, admit that they don't have the PPE instead of feeding us rubbish.
As for 100k tests to be done by the end of April, in your dreams, what a stupid statement to make, when the tests don't even work.

[bednobs]

yep, well done to those who waved their little flag and voted for the conservatives ...
In all honesty, the situation would be the same whoever was in charge and I personally think that the govt are doing a great job

[jno]

bednobs, I think they were very slow off the mark. They didn't bring in lockdown until more than 300 people had died and they missed the email about joining the EU ventilator scheme. They were also lackadaisical about testing. They're doing their best to catch up now but initially it doesn't really seem they had a plan.

[teacake44]

This is a nightmare for any government, and yes they are doing what they can, its a very big balancing act, and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. It's now pointless looking at what they could have done four months ago. But now we just need to be told the truth no matter what, or when we get past this, no one will ever trust them again.
You can fool some people some of the time, but not all of the time, and certainly not for a long time.

[Zacs-Master]

The point is, as has been explained earlier in this thread, is that no one knows the truth. What is it you don’t understand about that very simple fact?

[Togo]

// What I'm frustrated about is your interpretation of them.//

Which "interpretation" is that then? Perhaps we need be more concerned about your interpretation of my posting the graphs. Don't they meet the criteria to support your newest "issue". Remember....rushed science is bad science and Panicked Academics = Pandemics.

[teacake44]

Simple fact, we have x millions of PPE in stock, or we don't.
we have delivered PPE to everyone who needs it, or we haven't, simple.

[jim360]

There is a simple choice of whom to believe, really: everybody who has even the tiniest experience in responding to disease outbreaks, including all of the world's leading experts in epidemiology, frontline medics, nurses, etc. -- or Togo.

[Zacs-Master]

PPE is being manufactured by many companies. New companies are coming on board all the time. Cottage industries are springing up daily making smocks / gowns and face masks. Scools and Universities are donating stock. It’s a moving feast, just like the numbers being reported.

[jim360]

Put another way, Togo, it's very clear that you're taking the figures out of context. At the time of the latest ONS release they're reporting only the beginning of the Covid-19 outbreak, It should be obvious that those figures will be much higher in their updates over the next few weeks, to the point that Covid-19 will certainly outpace the usual flu death toll -- as it's already doing in Italy and Spain, for example.

There's no ambiguity here. It's a serious health crisis requiring a serious response.

[teacake44]

12.19 Yep, I will believe what a front line doctor, nurse, care worker is saying when they are interviewed at their place of work, to what the real situation is.

[teacake44]

My point is that your missing Zac is, don't keep sitting there telling the UK we have a distribution problem, not a supply problem, when they clearly have.

[Zacs-Master]

Matt Hancock admitted there were supply problems two weeks ago
Coronavirus: Hancock admits ‘challenges’ over NHS equipment https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52000150

[teacake44]

Since then they have said they have x millions in stock, and more on the way, that's old news.

[naomi24]

In fairness we should bear in mind that the whole world needs equipment. There’s competition out there. Not only that, but some due to be sent here from abroad was found to be contaminated with the virus - fortunately before it was dispatched. Frankly, I don’t believe all this negativity and criticism helps anyone.

[Zacs-Master]

You haven’t posted one single link to verify that there aren’t or won’t shortly be, stocks available. Could you do that now?

[teacake44]

12.34 Well may be you might well believe it if you were a young newly qualified junior doctor now being asked to join the front line without the proper PPE, or full completion of training in intensive care, or none at all in most cases