Is The U.s. Dangerously Prodding The Russian Bear...

[Khandro]

.. along with NATO & now the U.K. ?

[douglas9401]

...again.

[Old_Geezer]

Or is it vice versa ?

[ichkeria]

Russia masses 110,00 troops unprovoked on the border of a neighbour and yet it’s the US etc doing the prodding and provoking?

[Paigntonian]

Sooner or later something's got to happen with Putin, worth $40billion, assassinates opponents, rigs elections,sets up false 'opposition Parties',controls the levers of the economy, has expansionist ambitions including the Baltic sates, openly permits (by law) the killing of anyone who 'disrespects' the state,using nerve gas in other states like the UK, controls attempts to destablise elections in the U.S etc.

[Khandro]

ichi, //Russia masses 110,00 troops unprovoked.../

Unprovoked !!!! Ukraine is not a NATO member, a deal was struck with Russia when the USSR ended that Russian troops withdrew to within the Russian borders on the understanding that there would be no advancing further eastwards by NATO & the West.

That understanding has been reneged on & Russia is finding itself with armed forces encouraged by the West on its doorstep,

What would you do if you were Putin?

[Zacs-Master]

Duplicate Q
https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1782654.html

[Peter Pedant]

prodding a sleeping Bear

ursus dormiens dumquam titillandus

ne dormiat puto

sozza multima - just musing to myself in ancient forrin as is my wont

[Peter Pedant]

nichty duplicate
TTT - the Great TTT - or TGTTT no initials o god or the corbyloon will go loonie - used to start up to five radically different Brexit threads ( a day ! )

[Old_Geezer]

Independent nations can apply to join whatever international groups they wish, without the need for someone trying to interpret that as if it's the group that has chosen to advance. Also a nation need not be part of any particular group in order for other nations to want to stop it being bullied, since if you allow one invasion then you show yourself to be weak, and set the stage for further invasion attempts by the invading nation. The idea that, that will be ok, is simply unrealistic. One needs to prevent such acts by persuasion, or if that fails by nipping it in the bud before it gets out of hand.

[youngmafbog]

//or if that fails by nipping it in the bud before it gets out of hand.//

Well, what would you propose to 'nip it in the bud'?

[Old_Geezer]

That's not for me to propose but I hear other nations are already sending weaponry and trainers to the area, and things could escalate from there. Sanctions have already be spoken about. What would you propose ?

[davebro]

"Nipping it the bud" seems to trivialise the whole scenario when it means "NATO leaders will agree to meet force with force and hundreds or thousands of squaddies will get blown to pieces"!

[ichkeria]

“ Unprovoked !!!! Ukraine is not a NATO member, a deal was struck with Russia when the USSR ended that Russian troops withdrew to within the Russian borders on the understanding that there would be no advancing further eastwards by NATO & the West. ”

Utter nonsense.
There was no deal. There may have been verbal undertakings given at a very different time, but perhaps you could explain to me why Russia is threatening (again) a nation which is not even in NATO to combat that?!
The NATO stuff is just a front to deflect attention from the truth: namely that Putin does not want a successful democratic Ukraine on his doorstep.

I was Putin I’d do what Putin is doing as he can do no other
If however I was a decent and rational Russian leader I’d be using soft power and making my country an attractive proposition.
As it stands Russia has no “sphere of influence” E Europe because the candidate countries don’t want to touch his gangsterish and kleptocratic state.
He will never turn the clock back to Yalta

[Khandro]

OG // Independent nations can apply to join whatever international groups they wish,// That sounds very plausible but is Ukraine really completely independent with its history so linked to Russia with millions of the population speak Russian as their first language. Some historians prefer to use the word 'autonomous'.

[ichkeria]

Shakes head in disbelief

[Peter Pedant]

shakes head and other bits in disbelief

PP prods him and says what is wrong with you for chrissakes - this is AB! - suspend your um disbelief when you are on here

[Peter Pedant]

// He will never turn the clock back to Yalta//
and I said automatically - before Yalta
and then like Tarmas in tom and Jerry
went aaaaargh

someone besides me - knows about Yalta (*) - the betrayal of the eastern european states at Yalta by FDR before he croaked ( er and Churchill)

it's Itch - - - hiItch - -

settles down like a draco dormiens

(*) I think it was Togo who led the first charge on Yalta - wots Yaltie den foo! - foo Yalta ! - Togo suggesting helpfully and charitably that I meant Malta
see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victims_of_Yalta
and see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yalta_Conference
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal

Poles say their grandparents fought for King George NOT churchill as a result

[ichkeria]

Lol

Maybe khandro can explain to me at least I’m words of one syllable if need be as I can be a bit slow at times:
How does Ukraine threaten Russia such that the latter’s actions are justified?

[Khandro]

ichi //How does Ukraine threaten Russia such that the latter’s actions are justified?//

It is I who should shake my head!
Ukraine doesn't threaten Russia - how could it? it is the American led West who are doing that.

You do realise that America is demanding that Crimea be given 'back' to Ukraine don't you?

[ichkeria]

“ Ukraine doesn't threaten Russia”

Right so, taking this bit by bit. We’ve established that.

So why the troop buildup?

And of course Crimea should be returned to Ukraine. It is a legal (autonomous - as you seem to like that word :-)part of a sovereign state illegally annexed at the barrel of a gun.

I know you claim Crimea was given to Ukraine “illegally” decades ago by a country that ceased to exist decades ago but let’s not go round the houses on that as it leads nowhere