9-11

[RLM89]

Does anyone believe that the factual evidence against the alleged story that we are being told about 9/11 (that it was Osama Bin Laden's terrorist group that blew up the WTC 1, 2 and 7, a part of the pentagon and some poor farmer's field in pennesylvania? Because I've been looking into it and there's alot of evidence that doesn't match up so my mind is suggesting foul play on the part of the american government and leaders etc

[RLM89]

They already found Osama Bin Laden, At the end of the day if in the early 90's the governments had satellite navigation systems way before it got released to the public and the likes of google earth which allows you to zoom in upon any part of the world upto the point where somebody in america actually caught someone in england robbing a house when watching the road where they used to live, do you not think that the governments now have the technology to be able to zoom in close to things and with infra red and such technology to be able to see through rocks and mountains? Anyone who thinks the likes of those in power aren't seriously corrupt, please do feel free to do some research on how george bush (junior) was elected, the answer was in a big scandle, and also take a look at the watergate scandle and also the death of JFK, the reason (or one of them) was that the american government wanted to go to war with vietnam, JFK refused to sign the needed papers, Lydon B Johnson the successor of JFK famously uttered the words (or to this effect) Here's the papers that you need, a short time after being elected

[maxximus]

i was just being facetious, RLM89 cheers!

[Supernick]

The very definition of conspiracy theorist should be someone that disbelieves everything they read in the newspapers, but treats everything on the internet as fact.

[RLM89]

Nick, this just proves that you don't know anything about me or the studies that I have done, I have been taking evidence from both sides of the fence (the CT side and the "officials" side) I don't believe everything I read in either, the newspapers nor the internet. I do have the mental capability to sort worthwhile and possible logical information to that, that is total and utter B.S.

[bustergutt]

3 short clips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_DkzhonpGY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3My6nqsux4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEmHJORTlqk

These are three very good video`s to make anyone think about the reasons why the Twin Towers came down.
Conspiracy Theorists or true believers of terrorism, it`l make you wonder?

[shammydodger]

The explanation for the Twin Towers collapse doesn't require the metal to have melted. It merely requires it to have been weakened by the heat. The two are not the same. It's far more fascinating to believe in conspiracy than in the straightforward explanation. And, yes, it is straightforward. To echo what an earlier poster said, if Flight 93 didn't crash, where are the passengers? When you start crying conspiracy, you have to come up with viable explanations, not just theories. So far, you haven't.

[RLM89]

i have come up with pure undenyable fact, the fact's giving to the public by the organizations involved in the very short but published report into 9-11 and from other sources too yes.....but ok if the structure was weakened at that's why it did collapse why did therefore WTC 7 collapse when no plane crashed into it or anything happened to it for it's structure to have weakened and buckled if your theory is correct?

[LazyGun]

Both RLM and Maxximus (and every other single CT theorist come to that) conveniently avoid answering this really simple assertion. If their version of history is correct, and the WTC attack was a US Government false flag attack ( a really despicable assertion and insulting to the dead), Then why haven't all the thousands upon thousands of structural engineers, architects, fire safety officers, demolition experts et al around the globe not come forward crying out loud for all the rest of us to hear that this was indeed a setup? Do you know why they havent come forward? Its because there isnt anything to come forward about.

And Max and RLM, its up to you guys to bring out incontravertible evidence, not up to me to refute your fantasies.

After all, these videos you are all so keen on have been around for about 5 years now.

You have a theory that GWB was in collusion with others to MURDER 3000 or so of his own citizens...this is a disgusting assertion in the absence of any hard fact.

[RLM89]

2973 people died on 9-11, by any chance have you seen how many once citizens of the red white and blue have died in the iraq war? and aftganistan war? george bush has quite happily sent those people to their death's so why not the same amount giving him a ligitimate reason to go to war for oil. And LazyGun I haven't answered your questions yet because you also have failed to answer a few questions I have posted for you to answer! I will research what architects say about 9-11 and then copy the links etc onto here later

[RLM89]

I have just realised something! well remembered something! and this answers dear LazyGun's question, the reports onto why the twin towers collapsed on the videos that have been posted by the nice people willing to contribute to this are made by well respected construction workers, architects etcetc, not just random people they have drawn from the local nut house!

[bustergutt]

All you CT bashers think you know that the authorities are telling the truth, You all give cynical responses when confronted with reasonable questioning. You also call CT`s fantasy followers. Well here is 2 questions, can any no-nonsense straight thinking person answer?

1/ If the structure received as much heat to make the steel bend and buckle why didn`t it lurch over to one side, all metal stuctures have weak and strong points, it just seems unlikely to just collapse in perfect symmetry.
Also bear in mind that the extreme heat was 3/4 up the building and heat raises, also every steel girder was asbestos coated.

2/ Where is the wreckage of the plane that hit the Pentagon, are we to believe that even high tensile steel undercarriage parts just evaporated. Also the absence of wreckage in the other crashsite, take Lockerbie for example, same situation but tons of identifiable parts and debris.

2 reasonable questions from an open minded person.

[LazyGun]

Oh please!
The videos were made by reputable authorities? Says who? Who was used/consulted, and you still fail to answer the very basic question... given the amount of coverage and speculation regarding the WTC over the last 5 years, IF the CT theory is correct, why are there not 1000's upon 1000's of trained or qualified people not crying out every day about the atrocity? The answer... because there is nothing to cry out about, because they know from their own experience and training etc,and accept the evidence of the FEMA report etc.
Somewhere in one of your replies you said something to the effect that you wouldnt answer any of my questions until I answered yours... well with respect, its yourself thats asking people to buy into your world view.... but you expect us to do this without any question or challenge? Hardly the mark of an open mind, now is it?

Sending troops into a theatre of war where they are killed by the enemy, or even killing noncombatants (either purposely or by accident) in a territory other than your own is massively , hugely different from conspiring to MURDER 3000 of your own citizens by an order of magnitude... and only the cynic or the blase would try to pretend it is any different.

As for Buster.... read the articles...read the FEMA report, explaining in detail why the structures collapsed the way they did. There is a perfectly valid explanation fully supported by scientific research and evidence. If you choose not to believe them, well thats your perogative I guess.As to the absence of wreckage.... well that rather depends on which photo is selected doesnt it? The picture most commonly used on the CT sites is from one angle only... there are other sites that show numerous pictures from the Pentagon, showing all the bits of engine, fuselage and other detritus scattered around.

[RLM89]

I think you'll find LazyGun that FEMA reported that the twin towers collapsed in the fashion of a pancake collapse


http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http: //www.1645.org/images/article%2520photos/Panca ke%2520Collapse.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.1645. org/uttf1-katrina.htm&h=300&w=400&sz=51&hl=en& start=1&tbnid=QGEvnVH871fSVM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124 &prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpancake%2Bcollapses%26svnu m%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26client %3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:officia l_s%26sa%3DG

On the 2nd picture down on the right, this gives a view of what a pancake collapse should look like

http://www.geopages.co.uk/images/pancake-sm.jp g

This is a second pancake collapse from a totally different disaster in a totally different country with I'm sure you'll be glad to hear a totally different architect!

In the pictures above you can clearly see undeniably that whole floors are stacked on top of the next hence the style of collapses name! If you cast your mind back to the images of ground zero that were plastered round the world many millions of times if you are unable to do this I will gladly put some images of it on here.....just hollar!

http://911.gmu.edu/crr/images/CRRDB/data/docum ents/3258.jpg

that is one of them!

[RLM89]

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http: //americanhistory.si.edu/september11/images/sm all/151_706.jpg&imgrefurl=http://americanhisto ry.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp%3F ID%3D151&h=80&w=120&sz=3&hl=en&start=136&tbnid =vAfAF5k2D_rp3M:&tbnh=59&tbnw=88&prev=/images% 3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bdebris%2Bof%2Bgrou nd%2Bzero%26start%3D126%26ndsp%3D21%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Df irefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official_s% 26sa%3DN

There's a couple more images, and as you can see, there's no sign of any remainders of whole floors so surely that dispells FEMA's reports! Also LazyGun do you think the american government is truly innocent? that the watergate conspiracy didn't really happen? That nixon was the 2nd coming or something? And the death toll of 9-11 was less than 3000 as I stated earlier, please get your facts right!

Also if the pancake theory of collapse is correct where the hell was the core of the structure? I think a famous saying by a fireman was "where's the twin towers?" or certainly words to that effect when he was searching for colleagues lost in the debris!

[pageylady]

I hope someone who has lost a loved-one in the 9/11 bombings doesn't read these CT ramblings. Did Bush organise the London bombings too, was this part of the same master plan? I think that you find it easier to blame the events on a misguided politician than on terrorism and fanaticalism because it is more 'interesting' and less heartbreaking.

[RLM89]

There is no argument that 9-11 was a sad day for everyone, and these are not CT ramblings as I've searched through every post on this subject, the CT's or what ever you wish to call us are the only ones who have been forth coming with viable undeniable fact.......perhaps it's time for the non believers to share some true undeniable facts instead of just their own opinions............anyone?

[LazyGun]

Your "viable undeniable proof" consists of several poor quality, poorly edited videos from the same sources and interpretations of events presented as links from the same sources with their own particular agenda. Just because you claim it is viable and undeniable doesnt mean it is either of those things.

Furthermore, most of the "evidence" presented is selectively edited, and offers a highly subjective presentation of basic scientific and engineering principles.

You still have not answered a rather basic question... are you and your other fellow travellers so much cleverer than the 1000s upon 1000s professors, structural engineers, architects, demolition experts around the globe? How otherwise can you explain why these highly qualified people ,having the same access to the "facts" as you, are not continually bombarding the worlds media, the bulletin boards etc saying how it a was a big cover up. Or perhaps you think they are all in on it?

The fact that government conspiracies have occured in the past (Suez crisis, Watergate scandal, probably JFK to name a few) does not automatically mean that every event is a conspiracy. To state that the US Gvt conspired to MURDER close to 3,000 of its OWN citizens in the absence of ANY credible evidence is wicked and despicable, and is an insult to those who died and their families.

[RLM89]

perhaps, lazygun, you haven't read some other facts that I also have provided, that were not taken from "badly edited videos" or the such like, but taken from evidence given by FEMA reports and then checked twice with accounts by those who actually witnessed the events that day from inside and just outside the areas in which these horrific attacks took place, and then checked thrice with un-edited accounts of demolition experts, architects and the such like, I have provided quite a bit of this information, if you do not wish to believe it herein that is your problem. BUT, please realise I am not some radical mind etc, I am just a normal young man who believes not all the facts about that day that every body is being told add up, a fellow soul searching for a greater truth, I have not slandered you for your beliefs so please pay me that same respect back.

Thank You

[LazyGun]

No, you havent provided any such evidence RLM.You claim to have an open mind, but previous posts suggest that you believe conspiracies BEFORE any other explanation.
If you wish to believe in your particular theories, that is of course entirely up to you, but you persist in presenting your own world view (replete with allegations of Bin Laden being found, one interpretation of events surrounding the death of JFK as incontravertable proof) as the true version of events... thats what irritates me.

You continually ignore this basic question... if your interpretation of events surrounding WTC is correct, based upon information easily found in the public domain, why have 1,000s upon 1,000s of structural engineers, architects, demolition experts, professors, major teaching institutions not stood up and shouted their disbelief and cried out against the government coverup? Are they all part of the conspiracy? Maybe they just arent interested? (Difficult to believe)Maybe the worlds media outlets, internet bulletin boards are all controlled by the conspiracists?

Come to that, a conspiracy of that scale must have required 100s if not 1000s of people in the FBI, CIA, NSA, Government, Police Fire Service etc to participate....All of them have no conscience, all of them are willing to be muzzled? None have had an attack of conscience and come forward? Why have the major media outlets not run with the story... not as a one off docdrama, but a persistent story? Where are the Woodward and Bernsteins?
George Bush managed to orchestrate this major conspiracy less than a year after being elected as President?

You continually to present as true a conspiracy that the US Govt conspired to MURDER close to 3000 of its OWN citizens on its OWN soil in the ABSENCE of any incontravertable proof, which is wicked and despicable.It dishonours the dead and their families.

[RLM89]

In fear of repeating myself I will not comment.