Were they irresponsible?

[anotheoldgit]

http://tinyurl.com/6hkfkg8

I realise this was a brutal and savage attack on two females, and that women should feel free to camp out on their holidays, or on any other occasion.

But were these two foolish to the extreme, to camp out on a deserted beach in a foreign land alone?

[Davethedog]

Andy - Read Gromits post again and think about it, the think how serious you may think he is actualy being as per the statement.

Boo - You cannot defend the indefensible, how many crimes in a day? How many reported in the papers. Strange then that the "content" of AOG's questions are always the same.

[B00]

Always the same? I don't recall seeing many (thank God!) posts from AOG about women getting raped?

[andy-hughes]

Dave - after my knee-jerk post, i did re-read Grommit's post, and I gained a sneaking suspicion that his irony was entirely lost on me in my heightened state of upset in considering the impact of this dreadful situation.

Therefore, may I withdraw my remarks and apologies unreservedly tom Grommit for them - I am again a victim of the problems caused by humour being lost in the printed word, without the benefit of tone of delivery, and no doubt seriously raised eyebrows!

[Scylax]

I agree entirely with Sqad; no-one, men or women, should place themselves in common danger. The Caribbean islands are notorious for all sorts of nasty crimes, and to act irresponsibly in such places is foolhardy indeed. Disregarding one's own commonsensein these matters is tantamount to 'asking for it' since their actions were provocative. Trouble was almost inevitable. I have sympathy, but not a lot. They have learned a hard lesson, that the world is a dangerous place. It behoves everyone to anticipate its dangers and avoid them like the plague. The perpetrators were guilty, but to a lesser extent so were the victims.

[andy-hughes]

Scylax - to take the moral high ground to this extent is very cold.

To suggest that everyone possesses the same level of common sense and fundemental surivial instinct is niave, and to further suggest that to fail to possess common sense in any way connected to 'asking' to be sexually violated is breathtakingly pompous and uncaring.

I trust you have educated those close to you that posession of high levels common sense is the only way to live in this world, and that failure to measure up leaves you open to random trauma by marrauding hoardes, and frankly it is no more than you deserve.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[anotheoldgit]

jackthehat

/// Perhaps you should first take note of where your fingers touch your keyboard, before you start criticising me.

/// Men are taught to respect women.......that would be a start. ///

Is what you actually said, agree?

You made no mention of rape, so therefore I was addressing respect and not rape.

So therefore I think you should agree with my first and final point, this being as regards women also respecting men, no mention of the word rape you may this time notice, as there wasn't the first time.

Perhaps you should actually address what I type, instead of reading something into my posts that don't exist, but then it would not be such fun for you.would it?

[jackthehat]

Men rape women because they have no respect for them; either individually or as 51% of the population.

Not *all* men, of course, but the men who believe that they are entitled to rape and violate have no respect for women; it is impossible to argue otherwise.

[Gromit]

No probs Andy.

[Davethedog]

Boo - Yes always the same and it has nothing to do with rape, which may be why you don't understand why he gets the replies he does.

[andy-hughes]

Ta Grom.

[anotheoldgit]

Thank you once again BOO, for coming to my defence once again, I only wish ED realised what goes off, perhaps then others would be suspended, because it is them who are the ones to introduce ill feeling into the site.

What you have said is quite correct, no matter what I type on whatever subject matter, I am taken to task for it.

I do not insist that everyone agrees with me, but ABers can disagree with me without the need for aggression. I should be allowed to contribute in my own way to Answerbank, without lies about me being invented to belittle everything I say.

[Zeuhl]

Agreed

there is no need to belittle anything Old Git says.

[ChuckFickens]

For what it's worth I agree with AOG on this one too.

Did they deserve it: No.
Did they ask for it: no.
Were they foolish: yes.

I've been to places in the world where I would not even go into some parts of the city I'm in because it's to dangerous, If I was to go into those areas I wouldn't feel like I was asking for anything or deserved anything to happen, but I would know it was a incredibly stupid and dangerous thing to do.

Unfortunately in a lot of instances, such as this, hindsight is always 20:20

[jackthehat]

The girls were students studying the fauna (especially night-time fauna) of that particular island and that particular beach..........where else would the nay-sayers suggest that ought to have carried out their research ? Clacton ?

[ChuckFickens]

Jaywick would be better...

[Davethedog]

AOG what lies are they then. I haven't said anything thats untrue, in fact I haven't even stated what you post.

Would you care to enlighten me? What do you think i'm talking about?

[anotheoldgit]

jackthehat

/// The girls were students studying the fauna (especially night-time fauna) of that particular island and that particular beach..........where else would the nay-sayers suggest that ought to have carried out their research ? Clacton ? ///

A student in zoology might study fauna also, the particular animals might be Lions and Tigers, but it would be stupid for them to go into their cage to study them.

[jackthehat]

That's right, AOG.......keep it all in proportion.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - your analogy does not really hold up does it?

It would be stupid to study tigers in their cage - any student of fauna would be aware of that - but the analogy would be that the ladies were studying the fauna on the floor of an unoccupied cage, when a group of tigers appeared from elsewhere and attacked them.

The issue is - these ladies should not have to be in a position where their gender and geogtraphical isolation makes them vulnerable to sexual assault, and then have the implication raised, however obliquely in your case - far less so in others - that they were in some way negligent, and therefore paid the price for their actions.

That is then compounded by a further inference that anyone with any sense would have known that this was going to happen.#

It's only a short step away from deciding that these women are inherently foolish / careless / lacking common sense - however anyone wishes to describe it - simply by virtue of their gender.

Surely we don't mean that ... do we ...