Should one be charged with manslaughter, just for pushing another person in the back?

[anotheoldgit]

http://tinyurl.com/3fqj2lw

It would appear that this policeman is to be sent for trial, charged with manslaughter.

Do you think this is a little over the top, and this officer as been made a scapegoat in some way?

Yes it was obvious that the man was pushed but was that the cause of his death?

Did he fall and fracture his head? No.

Did the push cause internal bleeding? No.

He was in fact in the middle of a very violent riot almost, maybe he wasn't taking part, but he had been warned a number times.

The police as well as our military have a very difficult and at times a very dangerous job to do, and too many times in the heat of a disturbance or a battle, snap decisions have to be made, and as a result a death is caused.

If an innocent bystander happens to walk across a battle field, it is not the military who is to blame if he is killed, the same applies in a police incident, the message is simple if you don't want to get hurt, keep out of the way.

I know that all the cop bashers on here will be queuing up to cry me down over this, but like them or loath them, there may come a time when one might need them.

[sandyRoe]

Have you seen any of the footage of the incident? It didn't happen in the heat of battle.
The actions of this officer resulted in the death of an innocent man.

[bednobs]

i guess the trial will sort out if the push was the cause of death.
Personally i agree with you

[Sqad]

AOG

<<<<<<Did the push cause internal bleeding? No. >>>>>

According to one Pathologist No, but according to two Pathologists YES and that is why he is being sent for trial.

[bednobs]

i dont think you can say that without it being tested in law sandy
The man was pushed
the man died
but it dosen't follow that the man died because he was pushed

[sandyRoe]

I've a suspicion that he'd still be alive today if he hadn't been pushed. But a jury will decide.

[Sqad]

I agree with bednobs and i think that the defense counsel will produce expert witnesses who will question the fact that striking him and or pushing him led to bleeding from the liver and subsequent death.

I find that difficult to believe, but experts do not.

[McMouse]

Inquest returned a verdict of "Unlawful Killing". What bit of unlawful don't you understand aog?

[missnemesis]

Ascertaining the truth of this matter is the point of the trial. If this man's death was not down to the 'push' then all will be well and the policeman will be acquitted, yes?

[Sqad]

McM ...that is quite correct,but at the inquest there were no defense expert witnesses......I don't think.


A criminal trial will be a different "ballgame"

[Manwithnoname]

Yes AOG they do a good job in difficult times but they themselves are NOT above the law & should be treated as such.
If he is found guilty of the offence then he should do his penance or porridge, as any one else who is subjected to the laws of this country.

[pretty_snowdrop]

The man was pushed, quite violently looking at the footage, he fell to the ground and died later. I don't expect the man who pushed him meant to kill him, however he obviously meant to hurt him. I do agree to some extent that a manslaughter charge seems a bit harsh, but perhaps you would feel differently if it had been one of your close relatives that had died.

[anotheoldgit]

Sqad

You do surprise me, I have not seen any evidence of this.

If indeed that was the cause of his death, the victim should have had some previous serious injury.

I don't think even striking someone across the back with a heavy object would cause death, perhaps at the most serious, a broken back maybe?

But a shove?????? I think everyone who plays rugby better be careful in case they are charged with manslaughter at sometime.

[Manwithnoname]

AOG I dont you would find many men at his age playing Rugby, do you ?

[McMouse]

The PC who is being prosecuted is/was a member of the TSG who have a history of violent provocation. It has been suggested that members of the TSG often exchange shoulder number tabs so that if one of them is accused of an offence it can be demonstrated they were actually deployed elsewhere.

[mike11111]

One of the elements of involuntary manslaughter is recklessness. The prosecution will have to prove that the PC was reckless as to whether injury or death would be caused by his actions.

[e.crespo]

I believe that Ian Tomlinson was a chronic alcoholic, and was several times over the limit for driving on the evening he died, could his liver been so badly damaged by his alcoholism that it ruptured(?) when he was pushed over?
JJ

[Gromit]

The police are there to uphold the law, not to break it.

A coroners Jury found he was UNLAWFULLY Killed. That means a crime has been committed. It cannot and should not be ignored because the perpetrator was a 'rotten apple'.

[Manwithnoname]

Lets be honest here it was a cowardly attack from behind, unprovoked & unexceptable. The Police have been getting away with, in some cases murder, so its about time Big Brother exposed the Big Brother authorities for what they can do & think they can get away with.

[e.crespo]

I am not condoning the behaviour of the P.C. in any way in my above post.
JJ

[sir.prize]

We all appear to have differing views here. My take is that Mr Tomlinson was meandering, hands in pockets, ahead of a line of Police Officers armed with batons and accompanied by dogs. It seems Mr Tomlinson was not fully aware of his position in relation to the line of officers. He was then struck in theleg area by a baton, then shoved to the ground; rather harshly. He did not appear to be a threat, let alone a rioter, and perhaps a gentle arm to guide him to one sidewould have been more appropriate. Additionally, not one single officer went to to his aid and as the footage shows, the 'striking' officer prompty disappeared from view.

I know what I think about the incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HECMVdl-9SQ