ChatterBank3 mins ago
Drugs Decriminalisation: Naive "Celebs" Know Nothing.
A whole host of so called "celebrities" have been canvassing the Government calling for drugs to be decriminalised. The poor, misguided fools!
Have any of them actually seen a dead druggie? With a needle sticking out of a vein? Their body blackened and bloated? The staring eyes? I have.
Have any of them had to go and inform families that their son/daughter's been found like that in some stinking hovel? I have.
Have any of them seen the lives wrecked by not only the drugs dealers, but by the poor sad individuals addicted to these substances? I have.
Have any of them seen the wider ramifications of drug addiction? The little experiement with a bit of weed which swifly can spiral out of control into full blown addiction to hard drugs, crack cocaine, smack etc. The dependancy which often leads to a life of crime to finance the habit? The intolerable strain placed on the likes of the NHS because of such addictions? The families rent asunder by loved ones who are no longer the nice people they once were because of the effects of these substances? I have.
No, no way should any government scrap the drugs offences laws which, some might say, are never properly enforced anyway. It would be the slippery slope to rack and ruin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13625241
Have any of them actually seen a dead druggie? With a needle sticking out of a vein? Their body blackened and bloated? The staring eyes? I have.
Have any of them had to go and inform families that their son/daughter's been found like that in some stinking hovel? I have.
Have any of them seen the lives wrecked by not only the drugs dealers, but by the poor sad individuals addicted to these substances? I have.
Have any of them seen the wider ramifications of drug addiction? The little experiement with a bit of weed which swifly can spiral out of control into full blown addiction to hard drugs, crack cocaine, smack etc. The dependancy which often leads to a life of crime to finance the habit? The intolerable strain placed on the likes of the NHS because of such addictions? The families rent asunder by loved ones who are no longer the nice people they once were because of the effects of these substances? I have.
No, no way should any government scrap the drugs offences laws which, some might say, are never properly enforced anyway. It would be the slippery slope to rack and ruin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13625241
Answers
You’re quite right, ixiom, currently policy isn’t working. But you’re not quite right, Zeuhl. The evidence is not that prohibition does not work. Rather it is that prohibition not properly enforced does not work.
The current policy seeks to treat addicts as “
The current policy seeks to treat addicts as “
18:47 Thu 02nd Jun 2011
thing is New Judge if they gave them a prescription for the hard stuff which they could exchange from the chemist they would not need to go out and rob,mug kill etc
when the government takes a ton of h form the smugglers it sends it for high temp incineration. if this was distubuted by the governments to the junkies think how the crime rates would drop.
when the government takes a ton of h form the smugglers it sends it for high temp incineration. if this was distubuted by the governments to the junkies think how the crime rates would drop.
Sorry, DF, but I cannot agree.
Addicts lead chaotic lives. That chaos will not suddenly turn to organised calm because their habit has been legalised. They MAY, commit slightly less acquisitive crime to feed their habit, but the root cause of the chaos is their addiction not the fact that the drugs are illegal.
They will still be addicts, they will still behave in a chaotic and irrational manner, they will still be unemployable, and they will still roam around not knowing where they are, where they’ve been and where they’re going. The problem is that they are drug addicts and legalising drugs will simply create more of them because “newcomers” will believe such a lifestyle is acceptable.
Addicts lead chaotic lives. That chaos will not suddenly turn to organised calm because their habit has been legalised. They MAY, commit slightly less acquisitive crime to feed their habit, but the root cause of the chaos is their addiction not the fact that the drugs are illegal.
They will still be addicts, they will still behave in a chaotic and irrational manner, they will still be unemployable, and they will still roam around not knowing where they are, where they’ve been and where they’re going. The problem is that they are drug addicts and legalising drugs will simply create more of them because “newcomers” will believe such a lifestyle is acceptable.
think you are wrong geezer if ( think about this ) people do not smoke and can't stand smoking when they are in clubs they drop an e or other substance
i have known a few who take speed and other substances but they have never had weed, when i say this they may have eaten a space cake at a party and not known it :)
i have known a few who take speed and other substances but they have never had weed, when i say this they may have eaten a space cake at a party and not known it :)
New Judge // They MAY, commit slightly less acquisitive crime to feed their habit, //
reports that i have read state that they commit crime to pay for their drugs to get a fix.
if all they need to get a fix is a note from the doctor i think this kind of crime will just vanish.
the last thing a junkie wants is the police giving him/her hassle
an example would be the street walker why stay out for hours picking up strange men from passing cars when she can get a free fix
i agree they would still be unemployable but i am thinking of the crime they do to others
reports that i have read state that they commit crime to pay for their drugs to get a fix.
if all they need to get a fix is a note from the doctor i think this kind of crime will just vanish.
the last thing a junkie wants is the police giving him/her hassle
an example would be the street walker why stay out for hours picking up strange men from passing cars when she can get a free fix
i agree they would still be unemployable but i am thinking of the crime they do to others
-- answer removed --
The dead druggies with needles sticking out of their arms got that way because the supply of the drug is uncontrolled and they overdoses. It is of inconsistent strength and there is no guarantee of purity.
This is is a direct result of the criminal nature if their production.
They are found dead in the stinking hovel because taking drugs is a criminal offence. They are not encouraged to seek help lest they be arrested.
A huge percentage of the population has used cannabis yet the users of harder drugs is only a very, very small percentage so cannabis uses obviously doesn't "spiral out of control" as the doomsayers propaganda would have you believe.
Exposure of cannabis users to harder drugs occurs because the supply chain is through criminals who seek to make money by expanding their product range and customer base. If dope was legal and controlled they would not be exposed to the criminal element.
In fact the most common case I have seen of cannabis leading to harder drug is those who take up tobacco (which is a much bigger problem) because they couldn't get any dope.
When I was young many people took cannabis in the form of hash or hash oil. This is a far less damaging form of the drug because it is far purer and does not involve the inhalation of soot from the combustion of vegetable matter. However the production of hash requires equipment that is harder to conceal so it is difficult to obtain.
Moreover if most used Hash, much of the otherwise saleable parts of the plant would be discarded and far more pants would be required. If it was legal then that would not matter.
This is is a direct result of the criminal nature if their production.
They are found dead in the stinking hovel because taking drugs is a criminal offence. They are not encouraged to seek help lest they be arrested.
A huge percentage of the population has used cannabis yet the users of harder drugs is only a very, very small percentage so cannabis uses obviously doesn't "spiral out of control" as the doomsayers propaganda would have you believe.
Exposure of cannabis users to harder drugs occurs because the supply chain is through criminals who seek to make money by expanding their product range and customer base. If dope was legal and controlled they would not be exposed to the criminal element.
In fact the most common case I have seen of cannabis leading to harder drug is those who take up tobacco (which is a much bigger problem) because they couldn't get any dope.
When I was young many people took cannabis in the form of hash or hash oil. This is a far less damaging form of the drug because it is far purer and does not involve the inhalation of soot from the combustion of vegetable matter. However the production of hash requires equipment that is harder to conceal so it is difficult to obtain.
Moreover if most used Hash, much of the otherwise saleable parts of the plant would be discarded and far more pants would be required. If it was legal then that would not matter.
The evidence is clear that the drug problem is the criminality.
Arrogant people with their head in the sand like Kerosene and New Judge choose to ignore the vast weight of evidence that proves the fact and hark back to the same old tired rhetoric that has governed policy for decades while the problem continues to get worse.
Besides it isn't just some showbiz celebrities advocating the change. Those backing the change include a former leader of a US drug law enforcement agency. Here is someone who has front line experience and he says the policy has failed.
Other are former leaders of South and Central American countries that are being torn apart by drug wars and their governments can not afford to plough what would take their whole GDP to deal with. Thousands of their are dieing every year in those conflict.
The current Prime Minister of Greece, former secretary of the UN Kofi Annan. These are not naive people.
Two percent of US citizens are in jail. Most are there on drug convictions and many of the others for violent crimes associated with the drug supply chain. This is an incredible cost that could be much better spent on dealing with the problem of drug addiction instead.
Arrogant people with their head in the sand like Kerosene and New Judge choose to ignore the vast weight of evidence that proves the fact and hark back to the same old tired rhetoric that has governed policy for decades while the problem continues to get worse.
Besides it isn't just some showbiz celebrities advocating the change. Those backing the change include a former leader of a US drug law enforcement agency. Here is someone who has front line experience and he says the policy has failed.
Other are former leaders of South and Central American countries that are being torn apart by drug wars and their governments can not afford to plough what would take their whole GDP to deal with. Thousands of their are dieing every year in those conflict.
The current Prime Minister of Greece, former secretary of the UN Kofi Annan. These are not naive people.
Two percent of US citizens are in jail. Most are there on drug convictions and many of the others for violent crimes associated with the drug supply chain. This is an incredible cost that could be much better spent on dealing with the problem of drug addiction instead.
New Judge ///Rather it is that prohibition not properly enforced does not work. ///
Rubbish. The harder prohibition is enforced the bigger the stakes and the worse the criminality becomes. We have seen this in the past few years where Mexico is being destroyed by the US drug policy.
Like many conflicts, the drug war leads to an increasingly expensive Arms Race. The more we prohibit the greater the resources available to the criminals.
Imagine how many billions of dollars are spent by ordinary people on drugs every year? That money ends up in the hands of criminals who waste it on violence and frivolity. It could probably lead to an economic recovery if it was returned to the mainstream economy.
Rubbish. The harder prohibition is enforced the bigger the stakes and the worse the criminality becomes. We have seen this in the past few years where Mexico is being destroyed by the US drug policy.
Like many conflicts, the drug war leads to an increasingly expensive Arms Race. The more we prohibit the greater the resources available to the criminals.
Imagine how many billions of dollars are spent by ordinary people on drugs every year? That money ends up in the hands of criminals who waste it on violence and frivolity. It could probably lead to an economic recovery if it was returned to the mainstream economy.
EDDIE51 has provided a 2009 Time Magazine article which certain people on here seem to have swallowed hook, line and sinker. How sad.
A far more up to date and more accurately informative slice of credibility can be found on the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugs_in_Portugal
A far more up to date and more accurately informative slice of credibility can be found on the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drugs_in_Portugal
Wikipedia? Kerosene has fallen hook line and sinker for what they think supports their opinion. The statistics posted on Wikipedia are those that suit the opinion of the writer.
I don't supposed it occurred to you either that lifetime use (at least once in their life) is naturally increased by the death of the old who had never used it ever because it was uncommon in their youth?
Moreover from one of the reference links:
http://www.idt.pt/PT/...09_NationalReport.pdf
... the trend seems to be in the direction of a decrease, either in the number of users (prevalence) or in the intensity of use (lower level of intensive use-more than 20 times in last 12 months) among the users.
Between 2000 and 2005, the estimate number of problematic drug users in Portugal has shown a clear decline, with special relevance for injecting drug users.
Considering again cannabis use, last 12 months and last 30 days prevalence repeat the pattern found for lifetime: general decrease for [13 to 18 yo] boys and girls in almost all age groups since 2003.
Much of the success comes from diverting the fortune previously spent on enforcement into education, prevention and health. Prevention is the best cure, hence their interest in the school age population.
I don't supposed it occurred to you either that lifetime use (at least once in their life) is naturally increased by the death of the old who had never used it ever because it was uncommon in their youth?
Moreover from one of the reference links:
http://www.idt.pt/PT/...09_NationalReport.pdf
... the trend seems to be in the direction of a decrease, either in the number of users (prevalence) or in the intensity of use (lower level of intensive use-more than 20 times in last 12 months) among the users.
Between 2000 and 2005, the estimate number of problematic drug users in Portugal has shown a clear decline, with special relevance for injecting drug users.
Considering again cannabis use, last 12 months and last 30 days prevalence repeat the pattern found for lifetime: general decrease for [13 to 18 yo] boys and girls in almost all age groups since 2003.
Much of the success comes from diverting the fortune previously spent on enforcement into education, prevention and health. Prevention is the best cure, hence their interest in the school age population.
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