ChatterBank0 min ago
As the BNP fades into obscurity, will they become more dangerous?
I notice Nick Griffin has been re-elected leader. It wasn't an emphatic victory, he won by 9 votes, with 11 ballot papers being spoiled. The votes cast seem to reveal a very low membership
// Nick Griffin has been re-elected as leader of the British National Party, according to the party's website.
It said he received 1,157 votes and his opponent, Andrew Brons MEP, received 1,148. Eleven papers were spoiled. //
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14286110
The EDL have stolen most of the BNPs members, presumably because they can guarantee fights at most of their demonstrations. The fear of course, is that those that remain are the hardcore nutters, the most dangerous.
Should we keep a special watch on them?
// Nick Griffin has been re-elected as leader of the British National Party, according to the party's website.
It said he received 1,157 votes and his opponent, Andrew Brons MEP, received 1,148. Eleven papers were spoiled. //
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14286110
The EDL have stolen most of the BNPs members, presumably because they can guarantee fights at most of their demonstrations. The fear of course, is that those that remain are the hardcore nutters, the most dangerous.
Should we keep a special watch on them?
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bnp is a "legitimate" political party, whereas edl is a protest movement. i haven't studied right wingers that much- i mean who would want to right?, but i would imagine that they sidle themselves up to the bnp for ""legitimacy"" then at weekends sidle on over to the edl for kicks and punches for their illegitimate fix.
The real nutters never get a public persona. Nick Griffin is a mouthpiece.
There are certain groups that hide in the shadows. who would, should the far right ever obtain power, institute ALL the policies of the national socialists.
The EDL, I suspect will now try for political credibility, as the BNP rose out of the NF, as ever trying to give facism a creditable and acceptable face, whilst all the while seething with unbridled hatred that they can never actualy contain.
There are certain groups that hide in the shadows. who would, should the far right ever obtain power, institute ALL the policies of the national socialists.
The EDL, I suspect will now try for political credibility, as the BNP rose out of the NF, as ever trying to give facism a creditable and acceptable face, whilst all the while seething with unbridled hatred that they can never actualy contain.
No, youngmafblog, they have not all gone to the EDL. According to the Good Doctor Vince Cable, Business Secretary (whatever that means) there are a number of “nutters” among the Republican element of the US congress:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...ld-us-canada-14285831
It seems these people have been branded so because they have the audacity to suggest that it is foolish in the extreme for the President to continue with his policy of borrowing more and more money to meet current costs – loans which the country cannot afford to service and which have no realistic prospect of ever being repaid.
It is apparent from some of the comments in this question that we are in huge peril in the UK of labelling two groups in the same way. We have some disaffected people with huge issues concerning anybody whom they do not view as “English” and we have those who might not agree with what seems to be the western world’s answer to all our financial woes – just borrow more and more money. Both are labelled as “nutters” and we see a Cabinet Minister describing as somehow deranged, US congressmen who have been duly elected precisely because of their views on the economy simply because those views differ from his.
Personally I’m quite sure who poses the greatest threat to me and mine. I’m prepared to put up with a few disaffected thugs causing mayhem at football matches. I can (and do) choose not to attend such gatherings. But I cannot avoid the politicians, both here and abroad, who cripple their national economies by sticking to political dogma with scant regard for its effects.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...ld-us-canada-14285831
It seems these people have been branded so because they have the audacity to suggest that it is foolish in the extreme for the President to continue with his policy of borrowing more and more money to meet current costs – loans which the country cannot afford to service and which have no realistic prospect of ever being repaid.
It is apparent from some of the comments in this question that we are in huge peril in the UK of labelling two groups in the same way. We have some disaffected people with huge issues concerning anybody whom they do not view as “English” and we have those who might not agree with what seems to be the western world’s answer to all our financial woes – just borrow more and more money. Both are labelled as “nutters” and we see a Cabinet Minister describing as somehow deranged, US congressmen who have been duly elected precisely because of their views on the economy simply because those views differ from his.
Personally I’m quite sure who poses the greatest threat to me and mine. I’m prepared to put up with a few disaffected thugs causing mayhem at football matches. I can (and do) choose not to attend such gatherings. But I cannot avoid the politicians, both here and abroad, who cripple their national economies by sticking to political dogma with scant regard for its effects.
as i understand it, he called them nutters because they are opposing a us tax rise to aid economical recovery and cut the deficit in the us. perhaps a wrog choice of words, i dunno.
do you agree with them at the tea party then ? or will they all choke on their rich tea biscuits when they see their pension pots going poop ? challenge for you: a short answer.
do you agree with them at the tea party then ? or will they all choke on their rich tea biscuits when they see their pension pots going poop ? challenge for you: a short answer.
New Judge,
If you look at the graph in the link in the question, you will see a large dollop of this large deficit was caused by the last tax cut under Bush. Nearly $2Trillion was added, that's more than the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (more needless spending incidently).
When Clinton left office, the deficit was actually going down. Then Bush went spending mad (as Republicans usually do).
You might like to study under which administrations this debt build up (and who did their best to reduce it, here.
http://en.wikipedia.o...S._presidential_terms
Clearly the Republicans do not follow Cameron's mantra the "we are all in it together". They want the very poorest to pay back the debt while giving tax cuts to the very richest. A combination of both spending cuts and tax rises is surely the best way to reduce the debt.
If you look at the graph in the link in the question, you will see a large dollop of this large deficit was caused by the last tax cut under Bush. Nearly $2Trillion was added, that's more than the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (more needless spending incidently).
When Clinton left office, the deficit was actually going down. Then Bush went spending mad (as Republicans usually do).
You might like to study under which administrations this debt build up (and who did their best to reduce it, here.
http://en.wikipedia.o...S._presidential_terms
Clearly the Republicans do not follow Cameron's mantra the "we are all in it together". They want the very poorest to pay back the debt while giving tax cuts to the very richest. A combination of both spending cuts and tax rises is surely the best way to reduce the debt.
I think New Judge if you think Obama is borrowing reclessly you need to look at the chart Grommit provided in the other thread.
http://cdn.theatlanti...raph2-popup-58477.php
In fact I think the last US president who reduced their National Defecit was Clinton - The Republicans don't have a great history of saving money.
The US National Debt is such that it cannot be repaid by growth or realistic cuts - yet the Republicans - have the Tea party extremists at their back.
Basically the wealthy financial sectors in the US have crashed their economy with reckless lending and expect to get off scott free by having it paid for in cuts to public services which they don't use with no raises in taxation.
It won't work of course they can't save enough in cuts to make inroads into the defecit - not unless they're prepared to scale back their gigantic armed services spending
http://cdn.theatlanti...raph2-popup-58477.php
In fact I think the last US president who reduced their National Defecit was Clinton - The Republicans don't have a great history of saving money.
The US National Debt is such that it cannot be repaid by growth or realistic cuts - yet the Republicans - have the Tea party extremists at their back.
Basically the wealthy financial sectors in the US have crashed their economy with reckless lending and expect to get off scott free by having it paid for in cuts to public services which they don't use with no raises in taxation.
It won't work of course they can't save enough in cuts to make inroads into the defecit - not unless they're prepared to scale back their gigantic armed services spending
Yet one more emotive thread posted by Gromit.
/// Should we keep a special watch on them? ///
How do you suggest we do that Gromit, shall we take our eyes off the real threat?
It is funny how we get all the usual descriptives when referring to the dreaded 'Right Wingers'.ie anyone who dares to disagree with the 'Left'
'hardcore nutters', fascists, uneducated Neanderthals, Nazis, on par to football hooligans etc, etc.
Funny how we hear little of the 'Nasty left', the communist, socialist etc. and what about the violence they cause, the students protests were a prime example, they will infiltrate most protests all for the soul purpose of starting a good scrap.
One doesn't have to be a member of the EDL to recognise that there are many problems caused by the introduction of unlimited immigration along with the increasing threat of Islam, which together has changed the face of Britain behold all recognition.
It is a matter of concern, and as with all matters of concern it is worthwhile protesting against, and the only body at the moment prepared to take to the streets over their concerns are the EDL, so what is wrong about that?
Have they caused deaths and carnage in our Capital? I think not.
/// Should we keep a special watch on them? ///
How do you suggest we do that Gromit, shall we take our eyes off the real threat?
It is funny how we get all the usual descriptives when referring to the dreaded 'Right Wingers'.ie anyone who dares to disagree with the 'Left'
'hardcore nutters', fascists, uneducated Neanderthals, Nazis, on par to football hooligans etc, etc.
Funny how we hear little of the 'Nasty left', the communist, socialist etc. and what about the violence they cause, the students protests were a prime example, they will infiltrate most protests all for the soul purpose of starting a good scrap.
One doesn't have to be a member of the EDL to recognise that there are many problems caused by the introduction of unlimited immigration along with the increasing threat of Islam, which together has changed the face of Britain behold all recognition.
It is a matter of concern, and as with all matters of concern it is worthwhile protesting against, and the only body at the moment prepared to take to the streets over their concerns are the EDL, so what is wrong about that?
Have they caused deaths and carnage in our Capital? I think not.
Perhaps they should think of some unrealistic cuts, then, jake - a policy which the UK government might also like to consider.
Whatever the cause of the current plight facing western economies it is clear that many are living entirely beyond their means. If you ran your household along similar lines (borrowing more and more money each month to meet your mortgage fuel and food bills) you would very quickly have to consider some “unrealistic cuts”. I see no evidence either in the US, here in the UK or in the troubled economies of Europe, of anything like the level of cuts that are needed to restore those economies to an even keel. Increased taxation to raise more money to squander is not an acceptable strategy. This is what the Republican “rebels” are objecting to and this is why they are refusing to agree to raising borrowing limits. I wish them every success.
To brand people with differing views to your own, especially properly elected representatives of a major party in a major democracy, as “Right Wing nutters” is insolent in the extreme and it sums up perfectly the attitude of Dr Cable. His education in economics stems from the 1960s and his knowledge and dismissive attitude of lesser mortals may well have served him well when he was a Labour Glasgow councillor. It has been readily evident since he was elevated to Ministerial status (which he could not have imagined happening in his wildest dreams) that he is not best equipped to handle today’s problems. I can’t remember who first said it but there is an adage which suggests that it is better to keep your mouth shut and have the world think you are an idiot than to open it and confirm everybody’s suspicions. I think Dr Cable may take heed of that advice.
Whatever the cause of the current plight facing western economies it is clear that many are living entirely beyond their means. If you ran your household along similar lines (borrowing more and more money each month to meet your mortgage fuel and food bills) you would very quickly have to consider some “unrealistic cuts”. I see no evidence either in the US, here in the UK or in the troubled economies of Europe, of anything like the level of cuts that are needed to restore those economies to an even keel. Increased taxation to raise more money to squander is not an acceptable strategy. This is what the Republican “rebels” are objecting to and this is why they are refusing to agree to raising borrowing limits. I wish them every success.
To brand people with differing views to your own, especially properly elected representatives of a major party in a major democracy, as “Right Wing nutters” is insolent in the extreme and it sums up perfectly the attitude of Dr Cable. His education in economics stems from the 1960s and his knowledge and dismissive attitude of lesser mortals may well have served him well when he was a Labour Glasgow councillor. It has been readily evident since he was elevated to Ministerial status (which he could not have imagined happening in his wildest dreams) that he is not best equipped to handle today’s problems. I can’t remember who first said it but there is an adage which suggests that it is better to keep your mouth shut and have the world think you are an idiot than to open it and confirm everybody’s suspicions. I think Dr Cable may take heed of that advice.
I'm what Ankou would what call a right winger - mid-right of centre - and I don't sidle up to either the BNP or EDL.
So I would suggest that Ankou is spot-on that he hasn't studied right wingers that much because he clearly is not aware that the vast majority of us think both organisations are dangerous, and their ideologies are, by and large, absurd.
So I would suggest that Ankou is spot-on that he hasn't studied right wingers that much because he clearly is not aware that the vast majority of us think both organisations are dangerous, and their ideologies are, by and large, absurd.
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