ChatterBank0 min ago
Should immigrant Britons be banned from representing GB in all sports?
Someone recently asserted on AB that rather than hold athletes in high esteem who win for 'Team GB' but were born abroad, we should have them banned from representing Great Britain in all sporting events.
Is this a popularly held belief? In the US, you can only be elected President if you were born in America - should we introduce a similar ban on athletes, footballers, cricketers etc?
Or is this just the product of a particularly virulent form of right wing prejudice?
Is this a popularly held belief? In the US, you can only be elected President if you were born in America - should we introduce a similar ban on athletes, footballers, cricketers etc?
Or is this just the product of a particularly virulent form of right wing prejudice?
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cul8ron asked:
"And why did Northern Ireland get a separate mention in the recent IAAF Games?"
Speaking as a native of NI I am intrigued by your question: do you mean the fact that the proper name of "Team GB" (shudder) is actually "Great Britain and N. Ireland"? If so, then that's simply because that's the name of the political entity the team represents. I hereby abstain from any argument about the rights and wrongs of that :-)
"And why did Northern Ireland get a separate mention in the recent IAAF Games?"
Speaking as a native of NI I am intrigued by your question: do you mean the fact that the proper name of "Team GB" (shudder) is actually "Great Britain and N. Ireland"? If so, then that's simply because that's the name of the political entity the team represents. I hereby abstain from any argument about the rights and wrongs of that :-)
As I put in my post, Mo Farah's dad was born in England, how does that now affect the argument?
What happens if a person was born in Spain to an English father and a French mother on holiday from their home in Italy (for example)? Just an extreme example to show it could never be so black and white.
Nationality is more than just a label on a passport, it's in a person's identity, they should be able to represent the country to which they feel they belong be it through residency, birth or direct ancestry.
What happens if a person was born in Spain to an English father and a French mother on holiday from their home in Italy (for example)? Just an extreme example to show it could never be so black and white.
Nationality is more than just a label on a passport, it's in a person's identity, they should be able to represent the country to which they feel they belong be it through residency, birth or direct ancestry.
Kromovaracun
I think you may be flogging either a dead horse, or one who is on it's last legs.
Race isn't even part of the question. Some people think that immigrants are automatically from a difference race to Britons. What's weird about that is that Poles, Aussies, South Africans, French etc etc - and Brits are all from the sme race...ie. Caucasian!
I think you may be flogging either a dead horse, or one who is on it's last legs.
Race isn't even part of the question. Some people think that immigrants are automatically from a difference race to Britons. What's weird about that is that Poles, Aussies, South Africans, French etc etc - and Brits are all from the sme race...ie. Caucasian!
Kromovaracun
You asked me "How so"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...itish_born_athle.html
Now it can be classed as a news item.
You asked me "How so"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...itish_born_athle.html
Now it can be classed as a news item.
The basic question being asked in this BBC discussion is:
"Could foreign wrestlers who take on British citizenship increase the chances of GB collecting more medals? Should we encourage sportsmen and women from other countries to compete for GB?"
There is an issue with foreign wrestlers who've been brought in to train British hopefuls actually competing for Britain. It seems wrestling has rather lax rules in this regard anyway. A cynic might say this is Britain belatedly taking an interest in proper wrestling (rather than the comedy variety) just because there's a London Olympics coming up, in an attempt to increase our medal count and credibility, but I am sure that;s not the case at all.
What really annoys me is the confusion of this issue (and the BBC is guilty of this in the link) with the general question of "should people not born in Britain be allowed to compete for the country", with Mo Farah's case again being brought up where, in fact, it's completely separate.
It's one thing some countries, or sports within those countries, touting for foreign talent to boost their international status and, on the other hand quite another to see athletes who are as British as anyone by naturalisation etc competing and excelling for their country.
"Could foreign wrestlers who take on British citizenship increase the chances of GB collecting more medals? Should we encourage sportsmen and women from other countries to compete for GB?"
There is an issue with foreign wrestlers who've been brought in to train British hopefuls actually competing for Britain. It seems wrestling has rather lax rules in this regard anyway. A cynic might say this is Britain belatedly taking an interest in proper wrestling (rather than the comedy variety) just because there's a London Olympics coming up, in an attempt to increase our medal count and credibility, but I am sure that;s not the case at all.
What really annoys me is the confusion of this issue (and the BBC is guilty of this in the link) with the general question of "should people not born in Britain be allowed to compete for the country", with Mo Farah's case again being brought up where, in fact, it's completely separate.
It's one thing some countries, or sports within those countries, touting for foreign talent to boost their international status and, on the other hand quite another to see athletes who are as British as anyone by naturalisation etc competing and excelling for their country.
"Now it can be classed as a news item"
No, in the context of this website, it was a news item previously. SP was picking up on an assertion made by an ABer which was in response to the Mo Farah post, and is just a revisiting of the issues raised during that thread which weren't carried out fully. It might not have been exactly up-to-the-second in terms of current headlines at the point SP posted it, but the number of posts indicate it was clearly still an issue people were interested in.
I find your understanding of what's appropriate/inappropriate for the news section quite strange.
No, in the context of this website, it was a news item previously. SP was picking up on an assertion made by an ABer which was in response to the Mo Farah post, and is just a revisiting of the issues raised during that thread which weren't carried out fully. It might not have been exactly up-to-the-second in terms of current headlines at the point SP posted it, but the number of posts indicate it was clearly still an issue people were interested in.
I find your understanding of what's appropriate/inappropriate for the news section quite strange.
Just as a point of information, eligibility rules are set by the IOC, FIFA, UEFA or whatever body rules the sport in question. It's unlikely any country would handicap itself by adopting stricter rules than the IOC's! This was very informative in terms of laying out exactly what the rules are:
http://nationalsels.o...0/09/FIFA-9-14-10.pdf
In particular I did not know there was a Court of Arbitration for Sport that ruled on these things.
http://nationalsels.o...0/09/FIFA-9-14-10.pdf
In particular I did not know there was a Court of Arbitration for Sport that ruled on these things.
ichkeria
Spot on.
There's a difference between someone like Mo Farah, who has had residency for 20 years, and the somewhat cynical 'athletics tourism' which is the main thrust of the BBC link.
The two shouldn't be confused.
However - I don't understand how the whole 'athletics tourism' thing would work anyway? Surely once the games were over, they'd rescind their UK passport???
Spot on.
There's a difference between someone like Mo Farah, who has had residency for 20 years, and the somewhat cynical 'athletics tourism' which is the main thrust of the BBC link.
The two shouldn't be confused.
However - I don't understand how the whole 'athletics tourism' thing would work anyway? Surely once the games were over, they'd rescind their UK passport???
Perhaps instead of 'Team GB' we should call ourselves 'Team not born here but if you're any good you can represent us'
How about the poor genuine English sportsmen/women who miss out on representing THEIR country because these foreigners are chosen ahead of them?
Obviously these foreigners are better sportsmen/women so that's why they are selected but that's not the point......which is England should be represented by English born men/women
How about the poor genuine English sportsmen/women who miss out on representing THEIR country because these foreigners are chosen ahead of them?
Obviously these foreigners are better sportsmen/women so that's why they are selected but that's not the point......which is England should be represented by English born men/women
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