ChatterBank0 min ago
Muslim's 'Hell for Heroes' campaign.
156 Answers
http://www.dailymail....tion-November-11.html
Should they have been given permission to hold this protest, on our day of remembrance?
Why aren't the moderate Muslims voicing their objections against these extremists?
Should they have been given permission to hold this protest, on our day of remembrance?
Why aren't the moderate Muslims voicing their objections against these extremists?
Answers
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em he got 16 months for swinging on a flag this guy was selling stolen war memorials for scrap metal and got 28 days
http://menmedia.co.uk...d-over-vicious-attack
http://menmedia.co.uk...d-over-vicious-attack
-- answer removed --
<<and of course they should be more carefully monitored than they appear to be at the moment. >>
And how would you know what monitoring is currently being enacted by MI5?
With the huge shift in intelligence resources since 2007 toward uk-based terrorist threats particularly islamic extremism do you honestly imagine that people organising and participating in this sort of event aren't being closely watched?
More relevantly, covert monitoring is currently in-place (to an extent and in a form that most people would find staggering) on the people who are careful NOT to attract this sort of publicity.
And how would you know what monitoring is currently being enacted by MI5?
With the huge shift in intelligence resources since 2007 toward uk-based terrorist threats particularly islamic extremism do you honestly imagine that people organising and participating in this sort of event aren't being closely watched?
More relevantly, covert monitoring is currently in-place (to an extent and in a form that most people would find staggering) on the people who are careful NOT to attract this sort of publicity.
pa___ul3
/// They want people to see all Muslims as the enemy so that moderate Muslims find it more difficult to integrate thus risking adopting some western ways of thinking. ///
I also do not wish to be rude, but do you really think it is that simplistic, that being they only want to stop moderate Muslims getting into western ways?
But this is the whole problem Paul, if one could tell the difference between moderate and extremist Muslims, then that would go a long way towards outlawing the radicals from our society. But until such times as the moderates side with us against these radicals there is always going to be a certain suspicion of all Muslims.
The divide was created when the twin towers where destroyed along with all those innocent lives, which was then closely followed but much nearer to home, at the time of the London bombings.
/// They want people to see all Muslims as the enemy so that moderate Muslims find it more difficult to integrate thus risking adopting some western ways of thinking. ///
I also do not wish to be rude, but do you really think it is that simplistic, that being they only want to stop moderate Muslims getting into western ways?
But this is the whole problem Paul, if one could tell the difference between moderate and extremist Muslims, then that would go a long way towards outlawing the radicals from our society. But until such times as the moderates side with us against these radicals there is always going to be a certain suspicion of all Muslims.
The divide was created when the twin towers where destroyed along with all those innocent lives, which was then closely followed but much nearer to home, at the time of the London bombings.
AOG, actually I think you have a point there. Understandably, in my opinion, moderate Muslims seem to be reluctant to speak out against extremists, and I do think that leads to them all being tarred with the same brush - again understandable when people are suspicious and afraid - which they have been since 9/11.
This discussion is turning into an abusive row. That's what happens if you believe what you read in the Daily Mail.
Don't get your ideas and opinions from tabloids. Think for yourself... and here's a thought- why is this story only in the Mail? What's it's agenda? Why is this story not from another paper?
Don't get your ideas and opinions from tabloids. Think for yourself... and here's a thought- why is this story only in the Mail? What's it's agenda? Why is this story not from another paper?
of course that's the simplistic overall view, the intention is to create a divide, they won't get backing for their strict Islamic ideologies from Muslims who have integrated and embraced western culture .
The terrorist attacks have created a divide in many ways, yes, too many, and in these ways the terrorist attacks have done what they set out to do. The fear is there and many westerners now, very wrongly, treat all Arabic looking folk with an air of suspicion. I personally don't feel that any Muslim I encounter needs to speak out against these actions before I trust them, I will treat them as I would treat anyone I didn't know, I'd assume they were anti-terrorism until they suggested otherwise because it's not natural of anyone to support such horrendous acts, regardless of faith / race.
You say if one could tell the difference between moderate and extremist Muslims, then that would go a long way towards outlawing the radicals from our society. If one could spot a murder, or a rapist or a paedophile we could get them too, we, unfortunately, can't!
The terrorist attacks have created a divide in many ways, yes, too many, and in these ways the terrorist attacks have done what they set out to do. The fear is there and many westerners now, very wrongly, treat all Arabic looking folk with an air of suspicion. I personally don't feel that any Muslim I encounter needs to speak out against these actions before I trust them, I will treat them as I would treat anyone I didn't know, I'd assume they were anti-terrorism until they suggested otherwise because it's not natural of anyone to support such horrendous acts, regardless of faith / race.
You say if one could tell the difference between moderate and extremist Muslims, then that would go a long way towards outlawing the radicals from our society. If one could spot a murder, or a rapist or a paedophile we could get them too, we, unfortunately, can't!
"Outlawing the radicals from our society" eh? That's a very dangerous road to go down. How on earth would you do that?
On the subject of moderates not speaking out against extremists, I don;t think that applies to Muslims any more than it does to Christians or other religions. And in general, "moderates" are people who don't shout, by their nature. If we are moderate, broad minded people, we need to look to our own attitudes rather than try to worry about what other moderates are doing.
On the subject of moderates not speaking out against extremists, I don;t think that applies to Muslims any more than it does to Christians or other religions. And in general, "moderates" are people who don't shout, by their nature. If we are moderate, broad minded people, we need to look to our own attitudes rather than try to worry about what other moderates are doing.
you are clearly side stepping the crux of your op. muslims do speak out.
http://www.google.co....b2b3f&biw=777&bih=415
so lets close that one.
what in this specific instance do you condemn about this specific protest? - 3rd time of asking aog and still nothing succinct from you apart from the ususal 'all muslims are evil' etc etc.
http://www.google.co....b2b3f&biw=777&bih=415
so lets close that one.
what in this specific instance do you condemn about this specific protest? - 3rd time of asking aog and still nothing succinct from you apart from the ususal 'all muslims are evil' etc etc.
<<if one could tell the difference between moderate and extremist Muslims>>
Surely by definition an extremist is one who holds or acts upon extremist views.
But that only becomes an issue to others when and if they act on those extremist views either by enacting extremist behaviour or by influencing others by spreading those extremist views.
That is the point when the law would need to intervene and there is legislation currently to empower that.
If we want to foresee those situations then it is helpful if people reveal themselves by not feeling cowed in revealing their sympathies. As I said above, the people demonstrating are being very open - it's the ones who avoid the publicity we really need to know about.
Surely by definition an extremist is one who holds or acts upon extremist views.
But that only becomes an issue to others when and if they act on those extremist views either by enacting extremist behaviour or by influencing others by spreading those extremist views.
That is the point when the law would need to intervene and there is legislation currently to empower that.
If we want to foresee those situations then it is helpful if people reveal themselves by not feeling cowed in revealing their sympathies. As I said above, the people demonstrating are being very open - it's the ones who avoid the publicity we really need to know about.
As I have already said I do not think The Daily Mail is the best paper for a reasoned and educated information.
When Americans burnt the American flag as a protest agaisnt the Vietnam War they were held up as extremists who were deemed to be dangerous. Now looking back we see them differently.
There have been many organisations, religious and political, that have started out with peaceful intent they then get sabotaged by extremists.
There are plenty of discussion groups that you can personally attend discussing faith in the 21st Century.
Why do we seem to focus on just Muslims I am rather tired of this narrow minded approach. I read an article in a christain magazine about 'use this book to speak to Muslims'. It did not explain what I had to do with the book..Hold it up to a Muslim, hit them on the head with it. I do not need a book to speak to a fellow human being.
I have also thought about reading the Koran as how can we discuss a subject by using soundbites that are neatly plucked out by our 'unbiased' press.
Wasn't it our wonderful Prime Minister that described Nelson Mandela as a leader of a typical terrorist group.
When Americans burnt the American flag as a protest agaisnt the Vietnam War they were held up as extremists who were deemed to be dangerous. Now looking back we see them differently.
There have been many organisations, religious and political, that have started out with peaceful intent they then get sabotaged by extremists.
There are plenty of discussion groups that you can personally attend discussing faith in the 21st Century.
Why do we seem to focus on just Muslims I am rather tired of this narrow minded approach. I read an article in a christain magazine about 'use this book to speak to Muslims'. It did not explain what I had to do with the book..Hold it up to a Muslim, hit them on the head with it. I do not need a book to speak to a fellow human being.
I have also thought about reading the Koran as how can we discuss a subject by using soundbites that are neatly plucked out by our 'unbiased' press.
Wasn't it our wonderful Prime Minister that described Nelson Mandela as a leader of a typical terrorist group.
From MI5 website
<<A significant number of British nationals and residents are known to be linked or sympathetic to Islamist terrorist groups. Those who commit to Islamist extremism in the UK come from a wide variety of backgrounds, ethnically diverse, with a range of employment and educational achievement and are by no means exclusively young. Many, but not all, are British citizens.>>
<<A significant number of British nationals and residents are known to be linked or sympathetic to Islamist terrorist groups. Those who commit to Islamist extremism in the UK come from a wide variety of backgrounds, ethnically diverse, with a range of employment and educational achievement and are by no means exclusively young. Many, but not all, are British citizens.>>
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