Netherlands Halal and Kosher Ban

[mushroom25]

the Dutch parliament is shortly expected to approve a ban on Halal and Kosher methods of animal slaughter.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/...world-europe-15610142
a matter of animal welfare to be applauded? or right wing religious intolerance to be abhorred?

[jake-the-peg]

The EU actually tried to bring this ban in a year or two back but it was the Jewish lobby that managed to get it stopped.

There is disagreement in muslim circles about stunning - certainly it is practiced in the largest halal abbotoir in the UK.

I believe that it is firmly against Kosher practice though.

[tamborine]

See here, the animals ARE stunned

http://muxlim.com/blo...s-to-press-and-trade/

[ichkeria]

"some of these practices are now illegal in civilised countries such as polygamy, state-sanctioned murder, child marriage, torture and genocide"

Well, I might let them off the genocide (just), but I was wondering how many of the others really have been abolished in so-called "civilised" countries like er, the US.

[Zeuhl]

Mrs Z recently met a woman from Surrey or Sussex who rears goats commercially for meat. The main market is for Halal.

Being very concerned about animal welfare Mrs Z queried her on this and the woman said she too cared about her animals and frequently visited the abattoir she used. Her view was that the Halal method was a much nicer way for the goats to go than the conventional. Less noisy, less rushed, less scary, less stressful with animals calmly taken in one at a time.

She had seen the killing with the hand-wielded knife to the throat and reckoned the animal knew very little about it.

[ichkeria]

I don't know the ins and outs of the halal practices countrywide, but I agree with Zeuhl that the non-halal/kosher methods are hardly "humane" themselves.

[Morgan_s]

I read this earlier and started a similar thread in the food and drink section here.
I too am somewhat perplexxed about the methods used, apparently stunning is another word for electrocution? Electrocution is hardly humane, it's loud, frightening, painful and doesn't allways lead to full unconciousness.
Can anyone shed any light on this method and if you can go to food and drink to fully understand what was said about this?

[tamborine]

All red meat livestock must be killed by licensed slaughter premises only.

See 107, 'Sticking' here:

http://www.scotland.g...003/03/16929#anchor26

[notasyoungasiwas]

A matter of animal welfare to be applauded in my opinion.

[emmie]

if you need to install cameras in your plant to make sure your staff are behaving correctly, if you read through the article, in respect of the animals, then there was/is a problem. I dislike the fact that animals are slaughtered in this way, and whether one operation or many, surely the animal if it's going to slaughter, should be stunned first before being killed.

[Zeuhl]

em

assuming the stunning process (a clamp applied to the head which delivers a voltage to the temples) is itself any less unpleasant, less violent and less frightening than the sudden loss of blood to the brain caused by a razor sharp knife severing the artery.

and assuming the stunning process is actually applied properly which evidence suggests it often isn't.

[sith123]

i think it is wrong, they should not ban it, it is both muslims and jewish way of life.

[notasyoungasiwas]

But the animals are not religious sith - so why should they suffer ??! Not eating halal meat won't hurt you, but can you imagine the pain and fear of the poor animal. Animals reared for slaughter should be treated as humanely as possible, surely ?

[emmie]

sith, but it's not ours, and having this imposed on people is fundamentally wrong. We have no butchers in our area now, and those a bit further afield only do halal.

Zeuhl there are always going to be debates about this issue, but i prefer to believe that the methods that have been used in recent times, are a more humane/better way to despatch the animal. I watched a Jamie Oliver programme once, where he killed an animal, goat i think, by slitting its throat, and I found it really distressing. He didn't seem to want to repeat the process either.

[sith123]

i understand where you are coming from notasyoung, i mean, its their country, they can do what they want, but there are certain things we do not like that we put up with, so im not saying ban british butchers but keep halal and kosher ones aswell, and label the meat so you know what it is.

[Zeuhl]

I don't think we should allow anything in this country that conflicts with our values and standards in something as important as animal welfare.

Animal welfare is much more important than people's religious or cultural beliefs.

I'm just not convinced that Halal slaughter is any worse than what happens in conventional UK abattoirs

[sith123]

exactly

[sith123]

well at least it wasnt muslims.

[modeller]

Good for three reasons .
1. Animal welfare.
2. They are based on a 4000 year old mythology. Which was conjured up at
the time for practical hygenic reasons to stop people from eating suspect
meat.
3. They are a source of power the clerics have over their believers.

[mightyWBA]

Just shows how bonkers all religion is.