PRIVATE SECTOR STRIFE

[Sgt.Rock]

If working in the private sector is as bad as some would have us beleive, why didn't private sector employees quit their jobs in their droves and join the Public Sector "Utopia"?

[factor-fiction]

Well I've worked in both.

I noticed little difference between the sectors in terms of commitment and abilities.

The private sector tended to pay more in my experience but good salary progression tended to be based on performance whereas in the public sector annual increments meant some people progressed even if their performance didn't justify it. On the other hand public sector salaries were sometimes frozen by governments whereas private sectors could give increases (or cut salaries) depending on what they could afford.

Job cuts seemed slightly more common in the private sector but also occured in the public sector. I suffered redundancy in both sectors.

In terms of pensions, both sectors offered good schemes 10 years ago. In the public sector final salary schemes were available to most whereas in the private sector some companies din't offer them.

But over the last 5 years or so, pension funds in the private sector, which had to be self funding, were badly hit by Gordon Brown's removal of dividend relief, lower stock market returns and increased longevity. As a result, schemes closed, forcing staff into poor value stakeholder/money purchase schemes, or contributions went up, retirement ages were increased and schemes became career-average rather than final salary. In the public sector pension schemes have been tweaked but to nothing like the same extent- the taxpayer in general just picked up the tab where necessary.

At the moment I'd love to be able to take a job in either sector

[venator]

OK I'll come clean, I'm an accountant - retired FCA, many years with KPMG, then in a public company.

An accountant has access to the real nitty gritty.

I have seen public sector waste on an industrial scale.

And I have seen many many private sector businesses fail.

The big difference is that a private sector organisation fails when it doesn't work.

A public sector organisation keeps on and on, costing taxpayers' money

[seadogg]

Having held managerial posts in both I agree Venator but what they have in common is that the management becomes a cabal, looking after itself.

[venator]

Factor30 - sorry, you said a lot of valid points - Gordon Brown's theft of pension scheme tax relief forced many schemes into defecit.

Nobody seemed to notice at the time, but pension scheme investment in UK industry was vital, and he just wasted the money.

[whatmeworry]

Some years ago I worked at the British council in spring Gdns, overseas offices budgets, what a bunch of useless wasters for the most part.

They typfied the civil service, they could tell you more about due process regarding thier rights in the workplace etc than about the actual job.

[dave50]

Has everyone forgotten that it was Gordon Brown who destroyed the pensions of millions of private sector workers? He then used the money stolen to spend millions on welfare scroungers and bogus invalidity benefit claimants to ensure that these people continued to vote Labour.

[buildersmate]

No, we haven't forgotten, Dave, we are just storing it up to remind Sgt Rock at the appropriate moment.
The Sgt has clearly moved on to other questions now, but for me the answer to his question is that we all knew the 'Gravy Train' of public sector expansion under Labour wouldn't last - it was predicated on the private sector funding it.

[Sgt.Rock]

buidersmate - you are either so incredibly wise or not capable of obtaining a job in the Public Sector. Also evidently not even a proper builder.

[Brenden]

Sgt.Rock, Having worked in the public sector I can honestly state that I worked with people who could neither write a letter or answer a telephone coherently- all vital to the job - and could barely speak english, they were employed on a quota system i.e. immigrant, black, ethiopian, croatian etc and we were expected to carry them. so to accuse buildersmate of not being capable of a job in public service is very unfair and far from the truth.

[Sgt.Rock]

Brenden - buildersmate is a right wing conservative and his views are what I have come to expect.

[factor-fiction]

...whereas SgtRock clearly has no political allegiances

[China Doll]

I work in the public sector for the NHS, have done for a good few years now. I'm a PA so I'm one of those annoying pen pushers I imagine. I run two very demanding specialist services and could easily half my workload and still not be twiddling my thumbs. If we had performance related pay or bonus's, I would be earning a very decent wack, I'm extrememly good at my job. Most of the people I know and work with are very good at their jobs and are generally doing the job of two people in these difficult times.

That said, I have also known/know people at the same level as me and higher who are not doing anywhere near what I do, who are terrible at their jobs and who absolutely don't have a clue what they or their staff are doing, and I can see why the general public could get extremely frustrated if dealing with one of these plebs. I think historically it has been very difficult to fire people in the NHS and people have rather been 're-deployed' and become another departments problem; however things are definitely changing at my trust and I have known them to fire three people in the last few months for essentially not doing their job, I agreed with all three dismissals. I think the private sector has historically been much better at sorting problem staff out.

With regards to the strike, I neither support nor condem them, I'd be pretty cross if it were my pension. I'm not sure where the money is supposed to come from though, all hospitals are feeling the pinch at the moment and there's just not the funding there. I don't know what the answer is.

[Sgt.Rock]

You make a poor assumption factor30.

[boxtops]

I couldn't agree more, china, with all your sentiments ^^. I have no idea which part of the pubic sector Brendan was working in, but that's no my experience at all.

I don't understand the concept that the public sector is an overhead. If you are working in the health sector, you can't have the same targets, your target is people's health.

When I worked in the hospice, it was at the time that I was undertaking my management qualifications which were somewhat industry-focused - they kept talking about profits and outputs - I had to translate that into health and death outcomes which is not at all the same thing.

If you're providing services from public or charitable funds, the intention is to deliver that service economically and efficiently, not to make profits.

[Brenden]

I worked in a main Town Hall - albeit a few years ago - and I can assure you every word I have typed is true .

[Sgt.Rock]

Where were the protests when the private sector pensions were "robbed"? At least the Public Sector are attempting to stand up for themselves. Why do some on here want Public Sector to lose their pensions because private sector pensions have been affected in the past? A very vindictive and childish stance - if we can't have it neither should you.

[factor-fiction]

It would be better if private schemes could be as attractive as those in the public sector but private schemes are run by trustees and have to be financially viable - if they aren't they have to rely on the company to make up the shortfall but the funds to do this are limited. In the public sector the tax payer picks up the tab for any shortfall.
I'd take a lot convincing to believe that paying 6% of your salary for 40 years can go anywhere near funding 66% pay for 25 years in retirement.

However I think it is sad thas the pensions debate has been broadened to include debates about who works hardest/smartest and *** off workers

[Sgt.Rock]

Maybe the pain could have been eased by allocating some of the 5.2% increase in unemployment benefits to Public Sector pensions. Or even similar "reforms" to police and Armed Forces pensions.