Has IDS got a point here?

[Kayless]

http://news.sky.com/h...tics/article/16127392
Yoof do seem to idolise brainless celebs I suppose but is it related to the riots?

[jno]

well, I definitely only rioted because I saw Stephen Fry do it

[craft1948]

Is that why Tony Bliar is a multi-millionaire?

[jno]

I have to agree (although Kayless will not): this notion that getting what you want is the most important thing in the world came in with Thatcher.

[anotheoldgit]

Sorry Kayless but your link won't load, so may I enter the original interview with the Guardian?

http://www.guardian.c...culture-fuelled-riots

I agree entirely with his comments on the present day youngster's role models.

But regarding the Riots, it is a liberal left dream that you can change the mind set of these criminals by throwing money at the problems, which thy hope will magically change their ways, that's all it is, 'a dream'.

/// Duncan Smith, who as chair of the social justice cabinet committee is one of the key figures shaping a coalition response to the riots, warned there was "every chance" riots would recur unless structural reforms were made to repair "communities in which so many families are broken". ///

/// He is due to call next week for major investment from the private sector to help prevent social breakdown. He will argue that public-private spending can reduce social failure. ///

No excuses or easy fixes can alter the minds or lifestyle of these criminals, except zero tolerance shown towards them, followed by harsh punishment.

[craft1948]

I disagree jno................Thatcher encouraged people to get off their arses to get what they wanted, rather than be given it for doing bugger all.

[emmie]

jno, so our parents didn't want anything, want to better themselves, have better jobs, cars, tv's and the like. The ones i knew did, though they didn't riot to get those things, but got a job, and worked hard. Maybe those recent rioters have no job, but they must surely have been in education at some point, which is the only way i can think of, of making something of oneself eventually. Besides some of them came from decent enough homes, well off parents, so they must be following the pack mentality.

[Graham-W]

I believe it's more to do with the consumer society that has been created. Everyone wants the latest i-pad, android phone, psp, plasma TV etc. etc. They are advertised everywhere and you don't want to fall behind now, do you?
Then create a million people, between the ages of 16 to 25, with no job and little prospect of getting one. What do you think they are going to do? Sit back and chill, or do something about it.

[Philtaz]

I agree with craft.

It's all about the 'something for nothing' society at times, like the state owes them something for being feckless.

[jno]

not exactly, craft... remember the right to buy council houses? How far did people have to get off their arses to do that? They even got a discount to encourage them to do it.

em, you're agreeing with me.

[Kayless]

about MrsT, craft is correct that's what she encouraged. jno and others love to twist that because they hate the fact that she exposed their flawed ideology, for that she will not be forgiven. Socialists hate it when socialism is shown as not viable.

[emmie]

well some could do voluntary work, looks good on a CV, there are lots of projects, not just in Britain, but overseas too. But sadly many think because they managed to get a 2.2 in media studies, they will land a job in tv, or similar. Perhaps if more apprenticeships were offered as in the old days, in fields that we still excel in, then perhaps we wouldn't see so many sitting on the dole, waiting for someone to give them a job. Not all are lazy i'm sure, but the days of entitlement are over, as are the days of jobs for all, it's a very competitive global market and some are just waking up to that fact.

[emmie]

Craft is right, Mrs T, Norman Tebbit, and any number of others one could name, believed in doing things for yourself, not wait to be handed it all on a plate. Perhaps some of the celeb culture is to blame, but not all of it.

[emmie]

Space-cadet, that may be true, but you don't get anywhere in life, or most don't, without putting in the effort.

[jno]

so would you care to debate the right to buy, Kayless, instead of just name-calling?

Did it encourage enterprise? Or willingness to work?

Or did it just encourage a sense of entitlement? "I live here therefore I am entitled to own it, and never mind that other people have actually had to work to raise the full cost of a home."

[Kayless]

Name calling???? Do you consider the appellation "socialist" an insult? My apologies if I have mis read you.

I think the right to buy was a good thing, not flawless but on the whole good. Nothing MrsT did gave "entitlement" quite the opposite, she merely encouraged progress through endeavour and discouraged reliance and the whole "world owes us a living" attitude so beloved of socialism.