Suarez - a question from a complete football ignoramus

[sp1814]

This is what I have gathered from speaking to some of the lads at work.

Suarez was suspended for making racist comments to a player called Patrice Evra, and the next time they meet, rather than shaking Evra's hand, he refuses to touch it.

Right so far?

So, am I alone in thinking it would've been a much cleverer tactic for Suarez to have grabbed Evra's hand with both hands, and hugged him? It would've told the everyone, "Look - I have no problem with this player...it was blown all out of proportion".

Instead, it seems now the story has 'developed legs'.

As someone who finds football tedious - am I along the right lines, or is there more to this story?

[rowanwitch]

Sort of thing I'd do because it would make a great photo in the press too...

[Zeuhl]

I think Suarez's 'beef' is that Evra's complaints about remarks he claimed were harmless and not intended as racist have cost him a 6 match ban and a lot of trouble.

But yes. A hand shake would have been a lot smarter. And if Suarez is that stupid, the club should have made damn sure he did the smart thing. They are the ones who will pay the greatest cost if this carries on.

[Gromit]

There was the possibility that this could have been avoided. A recent handshake was cancelled (Ferdinand and Terry). But in this case the club assured everyone the handshake would take place and that would be an end to the sad tale. I don't think Suarez is very bright, but for some reason he didn't do it, making his manager and his club look foolish.

Daily Telegraph:

Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish insists that Luis Suárez will follow etiquette and shake Patrice Evra's hand

// “People are already speculating on the pre-match ceremony,” Dalglish said. “But from Luis’s point of view, we have spoken to him and I know he will shake the hand of Patrice Evra and the other Manchester United players before the game.” //
http://www.telegraph....trice-Evras-hand.html

If any player, no matter how good (I'm looking at you Jaap Stam) had humilated SAF in such a way, he would be out of the club as fast as you could say failed drug test. Suarez will be a Man City player next season.

[pa___ul3]

yep, Suarez was stupid not to shake Evra's hand, especially after telling the management he would which lead the management to confirm he would. Although there are still unconfirmed claims that Evra had insulted Suarez in the match of the original claims of racism. Until he actually tells us the reasoning we'll never know exactly why he refused.

[anotheoldgit]

Not if you were annoyed at being suspended for something said that is deemed not a racist remark, in one's own country.

[Zeuhl]

^^

So you're happy if Iraqis come over here and call British soldiers 'white child killers'

As that wouldn't be racist in their country.

[pa___ul3]

but Zeuhl, that would still be a deliberaly abusive term. Suarez insists what he said was never meant as abusive.
It's pretty much the same as the Alan Hansen incident that's been forgotten about, he used a term he thought was ok to use, only to find out it wasn't ok to use.

[anotheoldgit]

To be fair, it is being conveniently ignored, that Rio Ferdinand also refused to shake Suarez's hand.

/// Moving along the line of players, Suarez, 25, then came to the French defender’s team-mate Rio Ferdinand. This time, he appeared happy to proffer his hand. But, clearly angry, Ferdinand kept his arms by his sides. ///

[Gromit]

The original remarks by Suarez were to wind Evra up and he succeeded. Evra was clearly rattled. The ambiguity comes from whether the comments went too far. Evra claimed they were racially offensive so the FA employed linguistic experts to decide either way. They judged they were racially offensive comments. The experts may have been wrong, but Liverpool had the right to appeal and they didn't. That should have been the end of it.

[sp1814]

rowanwitch

Me too - it would've been SO easy for Suarez to do that 'power shake' thing that politicians do - you shake someone's hand with one hand, and with your other hand, you pat them gently on the upper arm - it denotes close friendship and makes a great photo op.

Instead, Suarez comed over as a sulky kid, and then at the end of the game (becuase of his over-exuberant celebrations) came across as...what's word...'overly gleeful'?

[Zeuhl]

paul

first off - i was challenging the logic (sic) that using terms that are racist is ok if they aren't considered racist <in one's own country>

Suarez should have gone straight to mea culpa/ i did it i' m sorry - with a substantiation that he's actually a nice non racist who made a mistake regarding cultural differences.

Alan Hansen did not use racist language. That is why it was soon forgotten. He just used a term that is now considered inappropriate and rather old fashioned.

That might be ok for joe bloggs but the criticism was that as a highly paid professional broadcaster he should at least 'keep up'.

[MarkRae]

I think it's also important not to forget that, even though they live in a highly-paid transparent world, footballers are subject to the same human pettiness, stubbornness and intransigence as the rest of us.

There are a couple of people, with whom I have had previous association in one form or another, whose hand I would not shake for all the money in the world...

[anotheoldgit]

Zeuhl.

/// So you're happy if Iraqis come over here and call British soldiers 'white child killers' ///

Why have British soldiers ever killed any white children in Iraq?

[Gromit]

Rio Ferdinand did refused to shake Suarez's hand. I think people realise that that was because Suarez had refused to shake hands with Evra. If you won't shake my teammates hand, I will not shake yours. A bit petty but there you go. It wasn't the Ferdinand/Suarez handshake that mattered.

[Gromit]

// Why have British soldiers ever killed any white children in Iraq? //

Whether they have or have not is irrelevant. Offensive comments do not have to be factual.

[Zeuhl]

^^

Yes. I think some of them would have been relatively light skinned.

Thanks for highlighting that.

It still leaves the question mark over your idea that racially insulting 'white' people here would be ok if it's not considered racist in the abuser's home country.

[anotheoldgit]

/// Instead, Suarez comed over as a sulky kid ///

So wasn't Ferdinand also being a 'sulky kid'?

[pa___ul3]

"Suarez should have gone straight to mea culpa/ i did it i' m sorry - with a substantiation that he's actually a nice non racist who made a mistake regarding cultural differences." I agree. I can't get my head round why he didn't and there's the counter claims about what Evra may or may not have said that are nagging me.
I don't get though how you're differentiating between what Hansen said what he perceived to be an acceptable term in which to refer to black people, and what Suarez said.. again what he perceived to be an acceptable term in which to refer to black people. As I've tried to say all along, racism is an attitude, a way of thinking, either he meant something in a racist way or he didn't. Just because the FA panel decided they thought Evra sounded more honest does not mean that what he said now IS racist.

[Ivorlittlein]

In effect,most of the Man.United players shook hands with a Racist,nobody seems to have mentioned that.

[sp1814]

Okay...hang on - let me get back up to speed.

Ferdinand refused to share Suarez's hand because Suarez refused to share Evra's hand - I assume then, that the Ferdinand handshake refusal must've happened after the Suarez/Evra incid...

...you know what? This is like school playground nonsense.

This is why I prefer spending my money on Madonna concerts. She may be a ridiculous woman with arms like Gollum, but at least she's a grown up.