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Should certain re-enactment groups be banned?
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It is obvious that asking a Jewish couple to act out the roll as Holocaust victims would be totally wrong, but should certain uniforms be banned in case they cause offence?
Why these re-enactment groups choose to dress up and take part in these re-enactments is yet another question, but I suppose they do attract audiences.
But ban one,and where does it end, ban the Sealed Knot lot, in case it offends certain Royalists or Puritans?
Ban re-enactments of the Battle of Waterloo in case it offends the French?
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It is obvious that asking a Jewish couple to act out the roll as Holocaust victims would be totally wrong, but should certain uniforms be banned in case they cause offence?
Why these re-enactment groups choose to dress up and take part in these re-enactments is yet another question, but I suppose they do attract audiences.
But ban one,and where does it end, ban the Sealed Knot lot, in case it offends certain Royalists or Puritans?
Ban re-enactments of the Battle of Waterloo in case it offends the French?
.
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Andy - just clarifying - the railway is not a public railway, it is owned by a volunteer trust. I only say this as you keep referring to it as if it is part of the national rail network - it isn't. So it doesn't have the safety net of the railway police, paid station staff or access to a bigger organisation.
So being a volunteer organisation trying to maintain any property is hard - when that property is a long line ie a railway being in 2 places at once requires a lot of highly briefed staff.
Whereas these people are drawn together by their love of choo choo trains.
And a small number of fanatics turn up and divert the publicity.
Which the trust should have been in control of, but weren't.
Not because they support neo nazis.
But because something that they have done for years has recently become seen as an easy target by some neo nazis.
Which they as a trust should address. So in a big organisation they would be given training and advice - as volunteers they have to scrat around and rely on goodwill.
That's why the voluntary aspect of this organisation is central to this specific debate.
So being a volunteer organisation trying to maintain any property is hard - when that property is a long line ie a railway being in 2 places at once requires a lot of highly briefed staff.
Whereas these people are drawn together by their love of choo choo trains.
And a small number of fanatics turn up and divert the publicity.
Which the trust should have been in control of, but weren't.
Not because they support neo nazis.
But because something that they have done for years has recently become seen as an easy target by some neo nazis.
Which they as a trust should address. So in a big organisation they would be given training and advice - as volunteers they have to scrat around and rely on goodwill.
That's why the voluntary aspect of this organisation is central to this specific debate.
Don't quite see what they are re-enacting if it involves asking people to play holocaust victims. Did they have a model gas chamber to complete the picture or a sign 'Arbeit macht frei',or someone in uniform telling people that the railway was just taking them to the country, and trucks ready to re-enact that?
It's patently obvious that some were neo-nazis or others with warped minds intent upon making trouble and being offensive.
It is not the uniforms per se that are offensive but the context, and the conduct of some of those wearing them.
It's patently obvious that some were neo-nazis or others with warped minds intent upon making trouble and being offensive.
It is not the uniforms per se that are offensive but the context, and the conduct of some of those wearing them.
I don't think you should ever ban re-enactors, or indeed certain uniforms. Granted it's in poor taste to parade around in an SS uniform usually but this wasn't something these people did everyday, it was a 'Wartime Weekend' where to be honest I would have expected to see such things. Am I offended by it? No, but I do tend to question some of the motives perhaps of some of the wearers ( although almost certainly not all of them). For the record, my Jewish wife and daughter are not offended either for similar reasons an my younger daughter is named after a relative of my wife's who survived the death camps, so her family have close experience and things are still strong for them. This however she doesn't rate as a problem- she's more worried about the intolerances of groups like the EDL towards the Muslim population than a few fat old men dressing up at weekends. Freedom is something to be treasured- even freedom to get it wrong and sometimes offend other people.
This had nothing to do with the Steam Train venue, (those references to Brief Encounters) etc.or any Neo Nazi organisations.
No volunteer groups such as Steam Trains or Tram Museums do from time to time put on these special week-ends, WW2 weekends being a prime example.
It just so happens that some individuals can get a little carried away in their enthusiasm to be seen as authentic.
It may be similar to some lads getting dressed up as Teddy Boys, at a 50's weekend or coming as Mods and Rockers at a 60's weekend.
No volunteer groups such as Steam Trains or Tram Museums do from time to time put on these special week-ends, WW2 weekends being a prime example.
It just so happens that some individuals can get a little carried away in their enthusiasm to be seen as authentic.
It may be similar to some lads getting dressed up as Teddy Boys, at a 50's weekend or coming as Mods and Rockers at a 60's weekend.
This particular stunt, in the light of historical fact, was absolutely disgusting, but I have always had a thing about re-enactments, I don't think they should happen, regardless.
History should be taught, no doubt about that, because as the saying goes, if you don't know history, you will repeat it,
History should be taught, no doubt about that, because as the saying goes, if you don't know history, you will repeat it,
"In some quarters the wearing of Police uniforms, could be considered offensive for some."
Sorry AOG, I fail to see any link between a police uniform and a Nazi uniform. One is designed to confirm that its wearer is an on-duty law officer, and the other is designed to show that the wearer is involved in a re-enactment tableau - amy I missing the link here?
Similarly, teddy boys and mods are historial youth cults, and wearting them shows alliegence to a cultural lifestyle, again, a very far cry from the associations of any Nazi uniforms.
So once again i would suggest that your compariosn is not entirely valid.
Sorry AOG, I fail to see any link between a police uniform and a Nazi uniform. One is designed to confirm that its wearer is an on-duty law officer, and the other is designed to show that the wearer is involved in a re-enactment tableau - amy I missing the link here?
Similarly, teddy boys and mods are historial youth cults, and wearting them shows alliegence to a cultural lifestyle, again, a very far cry from the associations of any Nazi uniforms.
So once again i would suggest that your compariosn is not entirely valid.
andy-hughes
/// Sorry AOG, I fail to see any link between a police uniform and a Nazi ///
No and neither can I Andy, but surely even on this site you have witnessed them called 'Facist thugs' 'Neo-Nazis' 'Pigs' etc, etc.
And I am sure that in some areas, a person strutting about in a Nazi uniform, would be more acceptable than someone in a Police uniform lurking around the next corner.
/// Similarly, teddy boys and mods are historial youth cults, and wearting them shows alliegence to a cultural lifestyle, again, a very far cry from the associations of any Nazi uniforms. ///
And are not the Nazis a historical youth and adult cult, which showed an allegiance to a cultural lifestyle?
A much more evil one I grant you, but the comparison that I made in this instance was perfectly valid.
/// Sorry AOG, I fail to see any link between a police uniform and a Nazi ///
No and neither can I Andy, but surely even on this site you have witnessed them called 'Facist thugs' 'Neo-Nazis' 'Pigs' etc, etc.
And I am sure that in some areas, a person strutting about in a Nazi uniform, would be more acceptable than someone in a Police uniform lurking around the next corner.
/// Similarly, teddy boys and mods are historial youth cults, and wearting them shows alliegence to a cultural lifestyle, again, a very far cry from the associations of any Nazi uniforms. ///
And are not the Nazis a historical youth and adult cult, which showed an allegiance to a cultural lifestyle?
A much more evil one I grant you, but the comparison that I made in this instance was perfectly valid.
AOG - thanks for clarifying, I found your comparison a little too subtle on first reading, but i now see where you are coming from.
Re. your comparison between Teds and Nazis - there I find less common ground.
Teds and Mods were youth cults based around music and a cultural identitly.Nazis were a political and military concept which eventually bore arms nationally - I see no comparison there, but by all means I am open to persuasion.
Re. your comparison between Teds and Nazis - there I find less common ground.
Teds and Mods were youth cults based around music and a cultural identitly.Nazis were a political and military concept which eventually bore arms nationally - I see no comparison there, but by all means I am open to persuasion.
And I am sure that in some areas, a person strutting about in a Nazi uniform, would be more acceptable than someone in a Police uniform lurking around the next corner.
I don't understand this statement at all ......
Even in Liepzig a uniformed policeman would be more expectable than a fool in a Nazi uniform.
Any chance of an explanation ?
I don't understand this statement at all ......
Even in Liepzig a uniformed policeman would be more expectable than a fool in a Nazi uniform.
Any chance of an explanation ?
humbersloop
/// I did once watch a re-enactment society do the battle of naseby, only the players were bored with doing the same stuff, so they let the royalists win. ///
And I should think so, they were after all a much more attractive bunch, don't you know?
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/// I did once watch a re-enactment society do the battle of naseby, only the players were bored with doing the same stuff, so they let the royalists win. ///
And I should think so, they were after all a much more attractive bunch, don't you know?
http://
http://
andy-hughes
/// Teds and Mods were youth cults based around music and a cultural identitly.Nazis were a political and military concept which eventually bore arms nationally - I see no comparison there, but by all means I am open to persuasion. ///
I wasn't saying that they were the same, only pointing out the similarity of those guys who chose to dress up as Nazis at a WW2 weekend, to some lads getting dressed up as Teddy Boys, at a 50's weekend or coming as Mods and Rockers at a 60's weekend.
In fact with the over enthusiasm of youth kicking in, perhaps these two groups could be much more troublesome than a few old men who think they look attractive strutting about in 'attractive' uniforms.
I use the word 'attractive' lightly before anyone comes down on me to say the Nazi uniform isn't attractive.
Think what you may but taking away the association with the Nazis, as a uniform it is more flamboyant and attractive than most.
/// Teds and Mods were youth cults based around music and a cultural identitly.Nazis were a political and military concept which eventually bore arms nationally - I see no comparison there, but by all means I am open to persuasion. ///
I wasn't saying that they were the same, only pointing out the similarity of those guys who chose to dress up as Nazis at a WW2 weekend, to some lads getting dressed up as Teddy Boys, at a 50's weekend or coming as Mods and Rockers at a 60's weekend.
In fact with the over enthusiasm of youth kicking in, perhaps these two groups could be much more troublesome than a few old men who think they look attractive strutting about in 'attractive' uniforms.
I use the word 'attractive' lightly before anyone comes down on me to say the Nazi uniform isn't attractive.
Think what you may but taking away the association with the Nazis, as a uniform it is more flamboyant and attractive than most.
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