Germany has seen sense, they have banned circumcision on the grounds of religious beliefs. Why has it taken so long for a government to realise it is child abuse?

[dabees]

http://www.guardian.c...-jewish?newsfeed=true

[naomi24]

Nor me.

[naomi24]

Sorry, my last was to Ummmm.

Em, the words 'education' and 'religion' do not sit happily together.

[emmie]

seems not. What a terrible thing to inflict on a child.

[RATTER15]

Extreme penalties will be the best way to stop it, an immediate prison sentence will certainly slow it down. In the case of Muslims, cut off a limb or two, they appear to understand that method of punishment quite well.

[emmie]

cutting off limbs is as barbaric, and that is not a deterrent. I don't have the answer only that this practice stops.

[RATTER15]

I agree em but it appears to be the preferred punishment of the Muslims, their choice, not mine! That is the way their minds work.

[naomi24]

//I don't have the answer //

Perhaps denying special concessions for religious reasons would be a start.

[ludwig]

ditto what kromovaracun said.

[RATTER15]

I would love to see England follow and ban it also!!

[emmie]

Ratter, even if you do, like forced marriage, the parents then take the child out of the country.

[EDDIE51]

Banning it is never going to be enough, it will go on' behind closed doors' or people will just take the child abroad and get it done.
We need to get the religious leaders to agree to stop promoting it and go along with the ban. (Fat chance)
Anyone know what the reason behind it was in the first place ? or is it just 'tradition'

[naomi24]

Eddie, for the Jews it is commanded by their God as a symbol of their covenant with him. The Muslims copied the Jews - in this and in many other ways.

[RATTER15]

The parents are as guilty and they should also be punished, I know it is almost impossible to stop but we can try our best.

After all we aren't permitted to surgically modify animals except on grounds of health, are humans less important?

[naomi24]

//Condemnation also came from elsewhere in Europe, with Rabbi Aryeh Goldberg of the Brussels-based Rabbinical Centre of Europe calling the ruling "fatal to freedom of religion". He told the Jerusalem daily Haaretz that it "contravened the EU's convention on human rights, to which Germany is subservient and harms the basic freedom of religion enshrined in the German constitution".//

This makes me sick. Whose human rights is he talking about? Not the child’s, that’s for sure! He gets no say in the matter.

[Gromit]

The Jewish lobby is very powerful in this country and a lot of money is spent buying our politicians. The various Friends of Israel political groups would never allow such a ban in this country.

[IggyB]

If a group find it so important that they are willing to break to law to have this procedure undertaken abroad or by illegal backstreet doctors / rabbis there is a very good chance that the child won't then be taken to legitimate health care providers if it gets sick later (with linked or completely separate illnesses) for fear that the parents will be found out. I agree that its not a very palatable practise but how can it be enforced? Strong penalties may not stop people but will prevent them seeking help later thus condemning the child further.

I think I would have undertaken a long term education and lobbying programme to try and change peoples minds and perceptions before amending the law.

[jno]

up to 90% of US males are circumcised. I find it rather hard to see them as a nation of abused children. I don't think I've ever personally heard a man say he regretted being circumcised.

[IggyB]

it is interesting that some countries routinely circumcise but not for religious reasons, like the USA for example where apparently a 1999 to 2002 survey found that the overall prevalence of male circumcision was 79% - http://en.wikipedia.o...mcision#United_States

I can see them changing very quickly with such a demographic

[IggyB]

oops turns out I've posted basically the same as jno - sorry
and I meant to say CAN'T see them changing any time soon...

[ludwig]

If there are valid health reasons for it to be done, let's get them on the table (as it were) and maybe encourage the government to start a programme of treatment, like measles vaccination.

Let's not just go slicing bits of childrens willies because some ancient loon decided that's what god wanted us to do a few thousand years ago.