Pregnant wife murdered so as to rid her of evil spirits.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....e-suffocated-her.html

Yet another story from the Middle Ages, how many more of these unfortunate young women must die in such horrific circumstances before these evil practices are wiped out in 21st century Britain?

[sp1814]

AOG

Perhaps I'm alone in this, but I think you've raised an important topic, which should be addressed seriously. If you were Prime Minister, and assuming you weren't spending all your time defending Mr Mitchell and his 'pleb' comments, what would you do to help these vulnerable women.

I'm assuming that like me, you feel this story is another example of how some men let down our gender with their disgusting behaviour...like these:

http://www.dailymail....hange-sex-jailed.html

[emmie]

It's a vile story i must say. No answer i am afraid. The poor lass, couldn't speak the language either, so how was she supposed to ask for help.

[emmie]

Sp, i am aware that the death penalty will never be brought back but there are times i wish it on people like that.

[askyourgran]

How long before they learn to behave in a civilised manner, and who would do that an imam? I presume this was an arranged marriage anyway, so really no love or bond between the poor young woman and this evil family. I despair of their medieval behaviour. Most refuse to integrate or are not allowed to speak to anyone, let alone learn English. What are they doing here?

[sp1814]

askyourgran - I would challenge you on the point on the lack of a bond on arranged marriages. Like you, I was EXTREMELY sceptical about the whole idea of arranged marriages, until I started working with people who are actually in arranged marriages - it opened my eyes. I always assumed that couples were forced into these marriages (and in some cases they are), but all the couples I know have partners found by their parents who give them 'test drives'.

It's kinda like the old Jewish tradition of the matchmaker...and from what I see, it seems (frm my personal view) to have some very positive benefits...

If we were to believe the narrative put forward by certain sections of the press, it would be easy to assume that women in arranged marriages are subjugated to the will of their husbands...but it really isn't like that. You know what it's like? It's like being introduced by a dating agency who knows the girl and knows the boy...and a lot of these unions survive on their own merit.

This case, however, does not fall into that category. We should be careful not to assume this is this norm.

[sp1814]

Actually - askyourgran...you said something interesting...when you say that 'most refuse to integrate' do you mean 'most Muslims', or 'most couples in arranged marriages'?

I ask, because I think my experience of those in arranged marriages may differ from yours...especially the point about not beg allowed to learn English. Shamira, Rupinder and Shila - all of whom I work with seem to have a thoroughly decent grasp of the English language (so much so, that I am often castigated on my misuse of 'that' and 'which' in my emails to them!!!)

[askyourgran]

I do actually know a young woman who is in an arranged marriage. She had a boyfriend whom she cared for but had to abandon him to marry the man her parents chose for her. She told me that she 'respects' her husband but secretly she still thinks of the young man she really cared for, fondly. It was a matter of losing face within the community that she obeyed her father's wishes and she respected him for his choice. She is an educated woman and did not have the 'village' mentality.
She saw her husband once before she married him a good while later. Her husband and his family accept her, he is modern in his ways, and she goes out to work.

[askyourgran]

She speaks good English, not a question of being Muslim really. But I take your point. Some of them have lived in villages where the woman have to obey their husbands (and I'm with Naomi on this) where they are treated no better than slaves, they are ignorant of the world around them. A bad meal, and hot fat is thrown on them or their hands held into the hot fat. There will still be untold misery for a lot of young women like the one in the news that we will never know about.

[sp1814]

askyourgran - that's bloody horrific!!!

The girls I know in arranged marriage have rows with heir husbands over which cruet set to get from Ikea, over who will be driving the kids to soccer practice on Saturday, on whether the mother-in-law should come for the whole weekend, or just Saturday, and whether £230 is an appropriate amount to pay for a pair of shoes...

I suppose these ordinary Muslims are overlooked because frankly, they're just as boring as the rest of us, and don't provide the delicious ammunition that some people like to use to propagate the whole 'Islam is evil' thing.

Give you an example - I met my mate Habib's dad a few years ago. He said to me after a coupe of hours (at a barbecue), "So...you're the homosexual one, aren't you?"

I steeled myself for an uncomfortable argument, and said, (a little over-defensively), "Yes...I am".

Without a beat, he replied, "You're lucky - you will never have to put up with a woman", whilst grinning and winking at his wife.

Genuinely, one of the loveliest men I've ever encountered...but because he's not beating his wife, or screaming obscenities at soldiers, he will never be represented in certain sections of the press...which is a great shame, because he is what I call 'balance'

[askyourgran]

sp, these are the people who have integrated into our society and made themselves known to us. There are some very ordinary people who want to make a good life with us. A young man who worked with me committed suicide after his father died, he couldn't cope with the difference in our way of life, his mother was quite old and wanted to keep the old traditions. It was very sad.

[sp1814]

I have a feeling (although I only have empiritcal evidence), that your average Muslim family is as dull, funny, mean, silly, generous, spirited as the rest of us, but the stories which stand out - like the poor young man you mentioned - are the shocking ones.

If you met 100 couples over a period of two years, the one couple you will always remember is the one where the wife was covered in bruises. You won't necessarily remember the couples who have a King Charles spaniel, or the couple who were having secondary glazing put in, or the couple who met in Guildford.

We recall extremes.

The problem we seem to have is that Muslims are now being defined by the very worst of Islam.

It's kinda like British tourists being defined by the antics of the Magalluf crowd. It's not really fair...

[anotheoldgit]

2sp_

/// You tell me, AOG. I don't seem to remember you posting much about other cases of domestic murders where the victims and murderers have been white. ///

Perhaps that may be because you seem to suffer from 'colour' blindness.

I will continue to post on horrific new stories such as this be them black, white, brown or sky blue pink.

But what I am not prepared to do is to refrain from posting on news items just because the 'baddies' happen to be non-white, I will leave that to those who are afraid to post on such stories because of cultural and ethnic sensitivities, there is enough of that PC silliness already.

[anotheoldgit]

This case is just another example of the myth that the mix of cultural differences adds a certain richness to our society.

But I am not prepared to see medieval and uncivilised practices such as this introduced into this country, in exchange for a few Curry Houses on our High Streets.

[2sp_]

Nice one AOG, making me out to be colour-blind here.

My point is that my impression of you is that you only seem to comment on stories that involve immigrants and non-whites.

Hundreds of white men and women suffer domestic abuse and are murdered by partners in this country every year. I don't recall you posting about how we are to stop that evil practice.

What these people did to this poor girl is horrific, her colour or ethnic origin shouldn't come into it.

[sp1814]

"I will continue to post on horrific new stories such as this be them black, white, brown or sky blue pink."

But not white paedophile groomers eh?

[anotheoldgit]

/// My point is that my impression of you is that you only seem to comment on stories that involve immigrants and non-whites. ///

Since you have only been a member since August, I don't think you are in the position to comment on the type of subjects that I have entered in the 3,512 threads that I have posted since becoming a member in 2006.

/// What these people did to this poor girl is horrific, her colour or ethnic origin shouldn't come into it.///

Of course it should, that is the whole point in this horrific case.

It so happens that in this case her murder was due entirely to her ethnic origin, and it is almost certain that coming from such an ethnic origin her skin colour would be of a darker shade.

These are facts that cannot be denied, and also it cannot be classed as racist by pointing them out.

One might as well say one cannot bring colour, drink or coming from a lower class of society into a case where a white drunken, layabout boyfriend attacks his partner.

[Zeuhl]

<her skin colour would be of a darker shade.
These are facts that cannot be denied, and also it cannot be classed as racist by pointing them out. >

Well it can be classed as racist if particular cases are singled out and others not.
Racist and, in a way more disturbing, misleading.

For example, while some of the stories in papers like The Mail are outright fiction most are 'factual'

The 'Big Lie' occurs when facts and stories of a particular type are selected for prominence while other facts and stories are ignored and filtered out.

[Backdrifter]

@youngmafbog - "Their principles(many on this site) are worth more than a woman's life"

That's a bold claim to make, and terrible if it's true. Who are these many who value their principles more than a woman's life?

Oh and by the way, don't worry about being "under Islam law". We won't.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// But not white paedophile groomers eh? ///

Not that old,old chestnut again sp.

if you are referring to your post sp, the news of this only broke late yesterday, and I purposely refused to be drawn into your anti-AOG trap, seeing that my previous thread with much more serious implementations was totally ignored by you and others of the anti AOG brigade.

Incidentally you somehow failed to mention that there was also a Muslim along with two with foreign sounding names paedophiles amongst those two other perverts.