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Society & Culture0 min ago
Are they finely admitting that their 'open border' policy doesn't work?
11 Answers
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/// The move was being seen last night as belated recognition that the EU ’s open-door border policy had been a massive blunder. ///
/// The move was being seen last night as belated recognition that the EU ’s open-door border policy had been a massive blunder. ///
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It was obvious it was going to fail, I could have told them that 10 years or more ago.
People from the poorer parts of the EU will always flood to the countries were there is more money, more jobs, higher pay, more free health care, higher child benefits, more people to scam and so on.
That is just human nature.
Why on earth it was allowed to happen, with almost no limit on movement of people, just shows you how naive some of these politicians are.
Any why on earth should tax that I pay (all of us pay) in the UK be used to pay chld benefits to chilren who are currently living in Poland (and other EU countires), and who have never even visited the UK.
Particularly as child benefit in Poland is a quarter of what it is in the UK, but we pay out child benefit at UK rates to children in Poland.
How pathetic, and a route to financial disaster.
People from the poorer parts of the EU will always flood to the countries were there is more money, more jobs, higher pay, more free health care, higher child benefits, more people to scam and so on.
That is just human nature.
Why on earth it was allowed to happen, with almost no limit on movement of people, just shows you how naive some of these politicians are.
Any why on earth should tax that I pay (all of us pay) in the UK be used to pay chld benefits to chilren who are currently living in Poland (and other EU countires), and who have never even visited the UK.
Particularly as child benefit in Poland is a quarter of what it is in the UK, but we pay out child benefit at UK rates to children in Poland.
How pathetic, and a route to financial disaster.
VHG
Under EU rules, child benefit is paid to parents who work and pay tax in the UK and whose children have stayed in their home countries.
British people who live and work are similarly able to claim local child benefit even if their children live in Britain.
Defenders of the system point out that East European migrants are contributing to the UK economy by paying taxes here and are therefore entitled to child benefit.
A spokesman for the Child Poverty action Group said: "The EU citizens this applies to are paying their taxes in Britain, so they are entitled to something in return for their contribution.
"In fact they get less back than other taxpayers because their children are not being educated here or being looked after by the NHS.
"If we denied them the rights and benefits other resident taxpayers get for their contribution, we would have no legitimate right continue taxing each of them thousands of pounds.
"It works both ways too, so British people working abroad can claim similar benefits in the countries where they work and pay taxes.
"It's not a good idea to take away the rights of British parents working overseas to support for their families back in the UK."
Under EU rules, child benefit is paid to parents who work and pay tax in the UK and whose children have stayed in their home countries.
British people who live and work are similarly able to claim local child benefit even if their children live in Britain.
Defenders of the system point out that East European migrants are contributing to the UK economy by paying taxes here and are therefore entitled to child benefit.
A spokesman for the Child Poverty action Group said: "The EU citizens this applies to are paying their taxes in Britain, so they are entitled to something in return for their contribution.
"In fact they get less back than other taxpayers because their children are not being educated here or being looked after by the NHS.
"If we denied them the rights and benefits other resident taxpayers get for their contribution, we would have no legitimate right continue taxing each of them thousands of pounds.
"It works both ways too, so British people working abroad can claim similar benefits in the countries where they work and pay taxes.
"It's not a good idea to take away the rights of British parents working overseas to support for their families back in the UK."
#Any why on earth should tax that I pay (all of us pay) in the UK be used to pay chld benefits to chilren who are currently living in Poland (and other EU countires), and who have never even visited the UK.#
We pay them, for the same reason that we pay for thousands of non existent children in Pakistan and elsewhere.
We pay them, for the same reason that we pay for thousands of non existent children in Pakistan and elsewhere.
East Europeans paying taxes, well some are not, according to a news report on TV a week or so ago, many Romanians are arriving here, getting low paid jobs, but are most definitely not paying income tax. Can't remember which programme, but according to the programme there is a big scam going on, and some of the employment agencies that take these people on are under investigation.
And that's the nub of the problem.
The EU idealogy is that the entire bloc should be treated as a single nation, with one set of taxes, one set of benefits, one set of laws, in fact one set of everything. Unfortunately this leads to situations such as those described where people from nations which have vastly inferior benefits move to the UK, draw the UK benefits and send the cash home. There is nothing in this for the UK. All that is happening is that unearned capital (or more precisely, capital that is earned by other people) is being exported abroad.
As with the single currency, until and unless there is one government running the whole bloc with a single set of taxes and benefits (unlikely in the extreme because the Germans do not like the idea and the EU is run by Germany for Germany) the system will see winners and losers. The losers will be taxpayers from the richer nations and the winners those from the poorer nations.
The EU idealogy is that the entire bloc should be treated as a single nation, with one set of taxes, one set of benefits, one set of laws, in fact one set of everything. Unfortunately this leads to situations such as those described where people from nations which have vastly inferior benefits move to the UK, draw the UK benefits and send the cash home. There is nothing in this for the UK. All that is happening is that unearned capital (or more precisely, capital that is earned by other people) is being exported abroad.
As with the single currency, until and unless there is one government running the whole bloc with a single set of taxes and benefits (unlikely in the extreme because the Germans do not like the idea and the EU is run by Germany for Germany) the system will see winners and losers. The losers will be taxpayers from the richer nations and the winners those from the poorer nations.
Quite possibly, SP. But here's a few facts:
Child Benefit in the UK: £1,066pa for the first child, the £697 per annum for each additional child (no upper limit). NI or Income Tax contributions not needed.
Child Befeit in Spain: Nil. Any benefits that are available are only provided to those who can prove the status of "contribuyente" (i.e. they are or have paid contributions).
However, if you're getting a child allowance from the country you live in and it's less than the UK rate of Child Benefit, the Child Benefit Office can make up the difference. So the "reciprocal" arrangements are somewhat one-sided. A UK citizen living in Spain can claim the full rate of UK Child Benefit from the UK because the Spanish rate is zero. Meantime those from abroad also get the full UK rate. There are wide divergencies between the UK rate and that paid elsewhere and, with the exception of Germany and possibly France I believe the rates paid by the UK far exceed those paid elsewhere in the UK. Furthermore, the situation is complicated by the fact that some of the countries which pay lower rates make income tax allowances for those with children (as we used to in the UK).
The whole system is a complete mess but there is little doubt that, overall, advantages to Britons living abroad are far less generous to those provided to foreigners living in the UK.
Child Benefit in the UK: £1,066pa for the first child, the £697 per annum for each additional child (no upper limit). NI or Income Tax contributions not needed.
Child Befeit in Spain: Nil. Any benefits that are available are only provided to those who can prove the status of "contribuyente" (i.e. they are or have paid contributions).
However, if you're getting a child allowance from the country you live in and it's less than the UK rate of Child Benefit, the Child Benefit Office can make up the difference. So the "reciprocal" arrangements are somewhat one-sided. A UK citizen living in Spain can claim the full rate of UK Child Benefit from the UK because the Spanish rate is zero. Meantime those from abroad also get the full UK rate. There are wide divergencies between the UK rate and that paid elsewhere and, with the exception of Germany and possibly France I believe the rates paid by the UK far exceed those paid elsewhere in the UK. Furthermore, the situation is complicated by the fact that some of the countries which pay lower rates make income tax allowances for those with children (as we used to in the UK).
The whole system is a complete mess but there is little doubt that, overall, advantages to Britons living abroad are far less generous to those provided to foreigners living in the UK.
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