Would the Labour party have a wider appeal if it was not linked with the unions?

[modeller]

The Labour was founded by the Unions but has the time come for them to be truly independent. Many people possibly the majority are not strongly left or right and they don't have a party who represents them.

[Gromit]

Yes.

But the link has always been there so breaking that link now would do them no good.

Likewise, if the Conservatives were not funded by donations from discreditted bankers, they would probably do better as well.

[baza]

Lib dems are the party for the middle of the road but nobody votes for them.

[FredPuli43]

Just think, without the unions Ed Miliband would not be the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. That's proof enough of what you posit!

[Gromit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../uk-politics-12401049

[plautus]

Modeller is either too young or too forgetful. Anyone remember the SDP of 1981, the Great White Hope which would represent those neither too far to the left or too far to the right?

[modeller]

baza The LibDems are not in trhe middle . They seem to attract the minorities, the Do-Gooders, forgive the criminals brigade, the greens,the gays , they are pro Europe , anti Nuclear, anti GM , they advocate unilateral disarmament. In many ways they are left of Labour.
Whatever the merits of any of these they each only have minority support.

FredPuli That's right but would it matter ? Another leader would come to the fore. I personally like Ed but that's another matter. Is he right for Labour?

Gromit That's right, but for the moment what is best for Labour. How can they appeal to more people. ?
It seems to me every time Labour becomes electable along come the unions and destroy it.
Blair's New Labour had a lot of promise but his personal ambition and self enrichment ruined it. He would suck up to anyone to get what he personally wanted.

[plautus]

I remember seeing the first television party political broadcasts (recorded, as I was not politically aware at the time). At the time of the 1955 General Election the Liberal Leader, Clement Davies, made a speech to the effect that the Liberals looked neither to the right, nor to the left, but marched steadily down the middle of the road. The response of Aneurin Bevan, at the time the unofficial leader of the left wing of the Labour Party remarked, "He who walks down the middle of the road deserves to be bloody well run over!"

[seadogg]

I believe Hugh Gaitskill took on the Unions with his fight to revoke Clause 4 as the Unions were pro nationalisation. In effect, Thatcher solved that problem and the relationship with the Unions is much looser now. Perhaps Labours change to a Social Democrat party will evolve further.

[modeller]

Hi Plautus it's a long time since anyone suggested I might be too young.
Forgetful ? Maybe, but not with regards to the SDP . They were idealists and lacked common appeal . It was Shirley Williams who destroyed our Grammar schools and inflicted the Comprehensives on us. At a stroke she allienated not only the Middle Class but all those Working Class families who wanted the best for their children. The SDP joined the only party who would have them ,the Liberals.

Steve.5 Surely that's what we want to get away from . They shouldn't appeal only to the unions. Gallop polls consistantly show people are not in sympathy with the behaviour of the unions. Although most people know we need the unions to protect us. Unfortunately the unions act like a political party in their own right, very often to the detriment of their members and the general public.

You are right of course with regards to funding of all parties.
If we could find a way of funding the parties to break the present link maybe we would get better governments.

[Gromit]

Blair largely did by-pass the Unions and managed to get large donations from big Business to bankroll his tenure at No.10. Not sure it was a golden age as you seem to think a Union-free Labour Party would be. I remember the dodgy characters such as Ecclestone and Hindusia Brothers. The Unions may have an agenda and may want influence, but they are not corrupt and crooked like the affore mentioned. It is hardly a coincidence that the City Bankers are bankrolling the Conservative Party, and nothing is being done to increase regulation on their activities that nearly brought this country to its knees in debt.
Ideally, Political Parties should be funded from taxation to stop Unions or Business having from having unhealthy leverage on decisions. But no one will agree to that so we are stuck with a very bad system that is susceptable to being bought.

[DaisyNonna]

Do not trust any of them.

[Duncer]

"The Unions may have an agenda and may want influence, but they are not corrupt and crooked like the affore mentioned"

A great post apart from the end part of it. Unions not corrupt????? Like water isn't wet and pain doesn't hurt. And the word is "aforementioned".

[modeller]

Gromit may I digress a little. I enjoy your posts but they would be of far more value if you would try answering ABers' questions rather than jumping up and down on the anti Tory drum.
Every post on this page concentrates on the question . Yours including the link is the old Tory bashing.

[FredPuli43]

Hmm.I remember block votes, whereby the union leader would cast a million or more votes for or against a policy and even the leadership of the Party. And strikes decided on a show of hands in a football stadium or convenient yard. And unions run by avowed communists.And a minor dispute on one shop floor meaning a strike in that factory would be replicated in every factory with that union's members and, by extension, by other unions coming out in sympathy. And no secret ballots for anything, so a minority got their wish.And a union leader being appointed for life.

Oh yes, there was nothing wrong or corrupt about the old unions !

[Duncer]

Which leads to another point............. as an ex Shop Steward in NIPSA, and quite mitltant at the time, I discontinued my union involvement due to rampant anti-Tory politics and extreme left wing *** like Derek Hsatton. Why can't a union member be to the right of middle? That does not make me Tory, but I despise the closed shop mentality of the old guard. My grandfather gave up so much for workers rights in the 1930's, but he did not do it for boorish little dictators.

[Gromit]

Fred,

You miss my point. It was up front, or well known what unions expected of a Labour leader. It is not obvious what Bernie Ecclestone et al required. I did not mean Unions were not corrupt or undemocratic, I meant they weren't in their dealings with Labour Governments. But wealthy individuals/donators have a habit of being so.

[Kromovaracun]

"Many people possibly the majority are not strongly left or right and they don't have a party who represents them."

Really?

It seems to me that all of the main political parties are primarily concerned with occupying (or appearing to occupy) the 'centre ground.' Comparison after comparison done over the last few elections has shown that when shown the manifestoes side-by-side, voters struggle to tell the difference. Despite its links with the unions, I really don't think Labour could be described as particularly left-wing.

[Gromit]

// Gromit may I digress a little. I enjoy your posts but they would be of far more value if you would try answering //

But I did answer the question with
// Yes. But the link has always been there so breaking that link now would do them no good. //

I am not sure I could have given a straighter answer than that, and I even agreed with you.

The counter argument that The Conservatives are funded by discreditted bankers is valid and worth reminding people.

[modeller]

Gromit #The counter argument that The Conservatives are funded by discreditted bankers is valid and worth reminding people. #
We know that and we don't need reminding in every one of your posts.

Try to forget about how bad the Tories may be for once and examine what could be done to make Labour more acceptable to the majority.