ChatterBank7 mins ago
Is this taking things a little too far?
59 Answers
http://
/// Independent on Sunday readers voted for the influential lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people who work publicly or with no recognition to make Britain a safer, fairer, better and more entertaining place. ///
One has to ask why does the Independent on Sunday find the need to have a 'Pink List' of gay 'heroes' and 'heroines', surely it is all so patronising?
This is last year's list.
http://
/// Independent on Sunday readers voted for the influential lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people who work publicly or with no recognition to make Britain a safer, fairer, better and more entertaining place. ///
One has to ask why does the Independent on Sunday find the need to have a 'Pink List' of gay 'heroes' and 'heroines', surely it is all so patronising?
This is last year's list.
http://
Answers
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naomi24/Zacs-Master
Ideally everyone would be treated the same, regardless of sexuality. But we don't - not by a long way.
Whilst we have gay teenagers committing suicide and whilst we have church leaders declaring that equal marriage is akin to bestiality and whilst we have closeted gay men and women living in fear if being 'exposed' to their families, we need lists like this to show that 'it gets better' (to quote the American campaign).
There are people who will verbally and physically attack gay men and women - how many heterosexuals have been murdered by someone stamping on their necks, for being straight?
These acts of violence should be condemned rather than a celebratory list of influential and admirable LGBT people.
Everything that makes gay people feel better about themselves is a good thing, because there is plenty of people around willing to make make life worse.
Bit of balance doesn't hurt anyone.
Ideally everyone would be treated the same, regardless of sexuality. But we don't - not by a long way.
Whilst we have gay teenagers committing suicide and whilst we have church leaders declaring that equal marriage is akin to bestiality and whilst we have closeted gay men and women living in fear if being 'exposed' to their families, we need lists like this to show that 'it gets better' (to quote the American campaign).
There are people who will verbally and physically attack gay men and women - how many heterosexuals have been murdered by someone stamping on their necks, for being straight?
These acts of violence should be condemned rather than a celebratory list of influential and admirable LGBT people.
Everything that makes gay people feel better about themselves is a good thing, because there is plenty of people around willing to make make life worse.
Bit of balance doesn't hurt anyone.
SP, //There are people who will verbally and physically attack gay men and women - how many heterosexuals have been murdered by someone stamping on their necks, for being straight?//
The same can be said for people in many walks of life. Transpose ‘gay’ for ‘black’, or ‘white’ or ‘Christian’, or ‘ugly’, or pretty much anything you like. Sadly, we will never change the cruelty of human nature, nor the minds of idiots, but I feel that people who categorise themselves – and this is what these people are doing – are actually setting themselves apart by opting to tell the world that they are different from everyone else – and they shouldn’t be. People are people. (I’m not sure I’ve worded that well, but I hope you get my drift).
The same can be said for people in many walks of life. Transpose ‘gay’ for ‘black’, or ‘white’ or ‘Christian’, or ‘ugly’, or pretty much anything you like. Sadly, we will never change the cruelty of human nature, nor the minds of idiots, but I feel that people who categorise themselves – and this is what these people are doing – are actually setting themselves apart by opting to tell the world that they are different from everyone else – and they shouldn’t be. People are people. (I’m not sure I’ve worded that well, but I hope you get my drift).
Many have said that this list does good for all those who have been frightened to come out, so it gives them the confidence they need.
I disagree this list like most others in these days of celebrity adulation, only glorifies so called celebrities, in this case 'Gay' Celebrities.
Now if they were to issue a list of those unknown gays who have achieved all in face of adversity that would be an entirely different matter.
I disagree this list like most others in these days of celebrity adulation, only glorifies so called celebrities, in this case 'Gay' Celebrities.
Now if they were to issue a list of those unknown gays who have achieved all in face of adversity that would be an entirely different matter.
AOG
I think you've made the mistake of not actually looking at the list.
Your argument is flawed because this is not just a list of gay celebrities. It's a list of influential gay people.
You say that this list doesn't provide positive re-enforcement for gay people.
Really?
Have you actually asked a gay person how they feel about this 'Pink List'? What did they tell you?
I think you've made the mistake of not actually looking at the list.
Your argument is flawed because this is not just a list of gay celebrities. It's a list of influential gay people.
You say that this list doesn't provide positive re-enforcement for gay people.
Really?
Have you actually asked a gay person how they feel about this 'Pink List'? What did they tell you?
naomi24
Straight people declare their sexuality every day. When as a woman you refer to your boyfriend or husband, you are implicitly saying 'I'm straight'.
When you get married, and declare your love for your partner, you are indicating your sexuality.
You are correct that people are attacked for all kinds of reasons, and that's why this list is important. Without celebratory articles like this, all we would have is the anti-gay lectures from the church and certain media outlets and political parties.
Is it not preferable to have a positive story once in a while, so that gay teenagers can have role models to look up to so that they don't feel so alone?
Does this list really hurt anyone?
Straight people declare their sexuality every day. When as a woman you refer to your boyfriend or husband, you are implicitly saying 'I'm straight'.
When you get married, and declare your love for your partner, you are indicating your sexuality.
You are correct that people are attacked for all kinds of reasons, and that's why this list is important. Without celebratory articles like this, all we would have is the anti-gay lectures from the church and certain media outlets and political parties.
Is it not preferable to have a positive story once in a while, so that gay teenagers can have role models to look up to so that they don't feel so alone?
Does this list really hurt anyone?
SP, I do indeed have something to add. If you would just remove your blinkers for a moment & take a moment to actually read what other people post you would realize that someone else posted about bigots before I did.
As I can see you're very passionate about this subject I shall overlook your faux-pas & accept your apology in good grace.
As I can see you're very passionate about this subject I shall overlook your faux-pas & accept your apology in good grace.
sp1814
/// Straight people declare their sexuality every day. When as a woman you refer to your boyfriend or husband, you are implicitly saying 'I'm straight'. ///
Then what do gays refer to their other half as, which designates them as gay?
/// When you get married, and declare your love for your partner, you are indicating your sexuality. ///
And how does this work when two gays get married?
/// Straight people declare their sexuality every day. When as a woman you refer to your boyfriend or husband, you are implicitly saying 'I'm straight'. ///
Then what do gays refer to their other half as, which designates them as gay?
/// When you get married, and declare your love for your partner, you are indicating your sexuality. ///
And how does this work when two gays get married?
AOG
Are those serious questions???
If a man refers to his boyfriend as his boyfriend, then that's pretty much an indication that he is gay. The same way if a woman refers to her girlfriend as her girlfriend.
Or am I misunderstanding your question?
Do you refer to your wife obliquely as 'my partner'?
When referring to your wife, do you deliberately use vague pronouns:
"What does your partner do for a living?"
"Oh, my partner is a manager of a textile distribution company"
That's a clumsy answer.
Most married men would say:
"Oh, she's the manager of..."
Which instantly declares that they are heterosexual.
Straight people never have to hide the sex of their partners. They wouldn't even register that they are telling the world they are straight.
But back to the list.
Have you read this year's one? Can you see that it is not merely a list of gay celebrities?
And to return to my previous question - on what basis do you determine that celebrating successful gay people doesn't help other gay people come to terms with their sexuality and give them positive reinforcement?
How did you come to that conclusion?
Are those serious questions???
If a man refers to his boyfriend as his boyfriend, then that's pretty much an indication that he is gay. The same way if a woman refers to her girlfriend as her girlfriend.
Or am I misunderstanding your question?
Do you refer to your wife obliquely as 'my partner'?
When referring to your wife, do you deliberately use vague pronouns:
"What does your partner do for a living?"
"Oh, my partner is a manager of a textile distribution company"
That's a clumsy answer.
Most married men would say:
"Oh, she's the manager of..."
Which instantly declares that they are heterosexual.
Straight people never have to hide the sex of their partners. They wouldn't even register that they are telling the world they are straight.
But back to the list.
Have you read this year's one? Can you see that it is not merely a list of gay celebrities?
And to return to my previous question - on what basis do you determine that celebrating successful gay people doesn't help other gay people come to terms with their sexuality and give them positive reinforcement?
How did you come to that conclusion?
thetalisen
I apologise for mistakenly saying you were the first person to mention the word 'bigot' in this thread.
However, you are wrong to suggest that just because those who disagree with the publication of this list will automatically be branded by those who do see value, as bigots.
So...leaving point-scoring aside, what IS your input?
I apologise for mistakenly saying you were the first person to mention the word 'bigot' in this thread.
However, you are wrong to suggest that just because those who disagree with the publication of this list will automatically be branded by those who do see value, as bigots.
So...leaving point-scoring aside, what IS your input?
No AOG...a straight woman could not refer to her partner as her 'girlfriend'.
However, of course she can have 'girlfriends' - friends of the same sex.
And men do not, and never have had 'boyfriends'. I literally have never heard any straight man refer to any of his mates as 'my boyfriend'.
You must know this, surely?
Or am I misreading your post? Are you being tongue-in-cheek? I honestly can't tell. Part of me wants to believe that you're pulling my leg, but there's another part that thinks you really believe this?
Anyway, back to my question - on what basis do you determine that celebrating successful gay people doesn't help other gay people come to terms with their sexuality and give them positive reinforcement?
However, of course she can have 'girlfriends' - friends of the same sex.
And men do not, and never have had 'boyfriends'. I literally have never heard any straight man refer to any of his mates as 'my boyfriend'.
You must know this, surely?
Or am I misreading your post? Are you being tongue-in-cheek? I honestly can't tell. Part of me wants to believe that you're pulling my leg, but there's another part that thinks you really believe this?
Anyway, back to my question - on what basis do you determine that celebrating successful gay people doesn't help other gay people come to terms with their sexuality and give them positive reinforcement?
sp1814
I should have addressed my headline to your answers.
/// Do you refer to your wife obliquely as 'my partner'? ///
No I do not, since we are married, but there are plenty of straight couples thart use the word partner all the time.
/// When referring to your wife, do you deliberately use vague pronouns: ///
Not normally, so does this define me as straight?
/// "What does your partner do for a living?" ///
//// "Oh, my partner is a manager of a textile distribution company" ///
/// That's a clumsy answer. ///
Only in your mind, this would most likely be the answer any straight un-married person would use, but then again a gay couple could also use it, so what does this signify?
/// Most married men would say: ///
/// "Oh, she's the manager of..." ///
/// Which instantly declares that they are heterosexual. ///
Well of course it would because you are using two people of a different sex in your analogy.
Most 'married' Lesbians would answer the same, which would declare that they are gay.
I should have addressed my headline to your answers.
/// Do you refer to your wife obliquely as 'my partner'? ///
No I do not, since we are married, but there are plenty of straight couples thart use the word partner all the time.
/// When referring to your wife, do you deliberately use vague pronouns: ///
Not normally, so does this define me as straight?
/// "What does your partner do for a living?" ///
//// "Oh, my partner is a manager of a textile distribution company" ///
/// That's a clumsy answer. ///
Only in your mind, this would most likely be the answer any straight un-married person would use, but then again a gay couple could also use it, so what does this signify?
/// Most married men would say: ///
/// "Oh, she's the manager of..." ///
/// Which instantly declares that they are heterosexual. ///
Well of course it would because you are using two people of a different sex in your analogy.
Most 'married' Lesbians would answer the same, which would declare that they are gay.
sp1814
/// No AOG...a straight woman could not refer to her partner as her 'girlfriend'. ///
That is not what I said, but I did say "So a straight woman cannot have a girlfriend then"?
In answer to this,
/// If a man refers to his boyfriend as his boyfriend, then that's pretty much an indication that he is gay. The same way if a woman refers to her girlfriend as her girlfriend. ///
Let's call an end to this all this, because all your attempts at provide vague analogies is not getting anywhere and only getting rather confusing.
/// No AOG...a straight woman could not refer to her partner as her 'girlfriend'. ///
That is not what I said, but I did say "So a straight woman cannot have a girlfriend then"?
In answer to this,
/// If a man refers to his boyfriend as his boyfriend, then that's pretty much an indication that he is gay. The same way if a woman refers to her girlfriend as her girlfriend. ///
Let's call an end to this all this, because all your attempts at provide vague analogies is not getting anywhere and only getting rather confusing.
sp1814
/// Anyway, back to my question - on what basis do you determine that celebrating successful gay people doesn't help other gay people come to terms with their sexuality and give them positive reinforcement? ///
Isn't it not at all possible for gay people to come to terms with their sexuality, without the need to continuously shout it from the roof tops, because even though most straight people have no problem with the fact that some are born gay, but it is all beginning to get rather tedious having it thrust into our faces all the time.
/// Anyway, back to my question - on what basis do you determine that celebrating successful gay people doesn't help other gay people come to terms with their sexuality and give them positive reinforcement? ///
Isn't it not at all possible for gay people to come to terms with their sexuality, without the need to continuously shout it from the roof tops, because even though most straight people have no problem with the fact that some are born gay, but it is all beginning to get rather tedious having it thrust into our faces all the time.
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