Scotland....independence..

[ZedBloke]

If they do leave the UK and the EU will they start issuing their own currency? Will there be border controls? Their own military etc? Have the SNP etc issued any docs on how it's going to work? Presumably all the Westminster seats in Scotland will be disolved. This is a serious question on how it's going to work not a debate on indepemdence itself, thanks.

[ZedBloke]

Yes mushroom but those figures are inteneded to illustrate the huge gulf in finance that an Independent Scotland would have to Bridge. I was preempting the standard "Scottish Oil" protestation. The fact is that even if they had 100% of the UK's North sea energy they'd be short of cash.

[mushroom25]

i don't profess to prejudge the result of the first scottish election. but an independent government - of whatever persuasion - won't be in place in 2014. there could be no campaigning before a mandate for an independent state - that would make the referendum meaningless.

[Wharton]

Still can't understand the meaning of 'independent', eh?

[ZedBloke]

I think it's you that's struggling there mate. We won't be able to subsidise you any more, you are on your own. Expect an exodus and huge drop in living standards.

[mushroom25]

i'm not sure what point youre trying to make.

in 2014, the scottish people will vote in a refurendum on whether scotland is to be independent. so far so good, the people are to vote on whether or not be free of governmental control from London.

A "yes" vote won't make it happen overnight, since the infrastructure simply won't be in place. you might have won the right to be independent from London, but that won't happen in 2014 - how can it? there won't be a government until its been elected.

[Wharton]

Living standards? I'd rather traipse the glens and eat deer sharn than be part of a 'union' which declares illegal war and kills innocent people.

[Wharton]

A "yes" vote will make it happen whenever we choose.

[ZedBloke]

well glad we had a constructive discussion, merry xmas!

[jake-the-peg]

You know bloke we'd probably take you more serioulsy if after posting a statement like Scotland gets 130% of what England gets you posted a link rather than just saying "fact" (it's a bit of a 14 year old sort of thing to say!)

And I hate to break it to Nessie but Salmond has given up the "more powers" in the referendum in favour a single question

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/Government/concordats/Referendum-on-independence

Frankly I'd imagine a lot of Tory's would be secretly hoping for a Yes vote.

A yes vote would give them such a dominanace in the Westminster parliament they'd probably never be out of power!

[mushroom25]

//A "yes" vote will make it happen whenever we choose//

you may choose to believe that. but on the practical level, it cannot and will not happen anything like as quickly. nor can scotland act unilaterally - it will take longer than you think to undo 300 years of historically intertwined legislation, this will necessarily require the co-operation of the incumbent legislature, roundly half of which still rests with westminster. if scotland is entirely managing its own affairs anytime within the next 4 years i'll be very surprised.

[ZedBloke]

A good point of irony jake. The Scotts hate the Tories but by voting for independence they'll help the Tories immeasurably! Dave must be hoping for a yes!

[jake-the-peg]

Well I'd have thought he would be but that doesn't seem to be his position

Maybe he's afraid of taking a trip up to Buck House and explaining how she's not Queen of Scotland anymore!

Going to make trips to Balmoral take on a whole new atmosphere !

[mushroom25]

//Going to make trips to Balmoral take on a whole new atmosphere !//

balmoral was purchased privately by queen victoria. it is still a personal possession of the monarch and is not a constituent of the crown estates.

unless an independent scottish government decide to nationalise such properties, there'd be nothing to stop the queen continuing to travel to and stay at balmoral.

[ZedBloke]

jake the 130% thing is from amny sources over the years, the amounts vary but there are any number of google hits on this. Here is the BBC version:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16477990
It concludes that Scotland is subsidised by England but the amount depends on what is in the calculation.

[jake-the-peg]

I'm quite aware Balmoral is a personal posession as is Sandringham

But the visits to things like Highland Games would be a bit different!


Also at the moment it's in the UK and personal protection is provided by the Police (part of the hidden costs that don't come out of the civil list)

Not sure whether an independant Scotland would be keen on armed English officers running about Scotland - perhaps they'd provide the security and send a bill!

[THECORBYLOON]

Zedbloke you tell us to do the math (sic) but the UK GDP you quoted is in dollars and the Scots GDP is in sterling.

[mushroom25]

//Not sure whether an independant Scotland would be keen on armed English officers running about Scotland//

in tuscany, the italian police have provided 100s of armed officers to look after our holidaying prime ministers - cameron, and blair before him. would the queen choosing to holiday in a territory outside the UK be any different?

[THECORBYLOON]

Looking at the BBC link, it shows that if oil revenue is included, Scotland produced 9.4% of the UK revenue but only 9.2% of UK spending

[ZedBloke]

well convert one or the other, ie do the math!

[THECORBYLOON]

Thay should have read "... but received only 9.2% of UK spending"