ChatterBank0 min ago
Why All The Fuss Here?
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Surely the promotion of any sexualty over another is wrong. I think the Russians are being very sensible.
Surely the promotion of any sexualty over another is wrong. I think the Russians are being very sensible.
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If Gay people are a persecuted minority (which it seems black police officers are too, apparently) just how will having a "Gay Carnival" help them in their fight for the right to be considered equal?
And are you saying, LG, that if a "straight" carnival was organised, it would not be treated as I suggested?
And are you saying, LG, that if a "straight" carnival was organised, it would not be treated as I suggested?
Neither, presumably, do heterosexuals, ummm. But they don't feel the need to organise a carnival in their name.
What I find most puzzling is that a group of people who apparently crave equality go out of their way to identify themselves separately from those with whom they'd like to be on par. By organising events that are aimed specifically at them alone they immediately place themselves apart and it severely diminishes their cause.
What I find most puzzling is that a group of people who apparently crave equality go out of their way to identify themselves separately from those with whom they'd like to be on par. By organising events that are aimed specifically at them alone they immediately place themselves apart and it severely diminishes their cause.
promote is the wrong word really - that implies trying to push it on people and encourage it - they are just celebrating their shared interest.
jehovahs witnesses going door to door encouraging people to convert - is pushing it on people and promoting their religion - people praying and singing hymns is celebrating their shared interest - very different things
jehovahs witnesses going door to door encouraging people to convert - is pushing it on people and promoting their religion - people praying and singing hymns is celebrating their shared interest - very different things
I think you're suffering the same misunderstaning of "homophobia" as I once did, ummmm. I too thought that "phobias" were fears, but apparently not necessarily (not with homophobia, anyway):
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You will see it is defined as "an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people." It's the only phobia I know of that does not involve fear. Why it has developed as such I do not know.
http://
You will see it is defined as "an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people." It's the only phobia I know of that does not involve fear. Why it has developed as such I do not know.
What these so called 'minority groups' fail to realise is the fact that if they just got on with their lives without the need to constantly set up separate organisations, groups, marches, rallies etc, etc.to somehow announce "we are different to you, and have certain needs" then they would find that people would accept them as 'just the same as everyone else'.
It is the measures they take to make themselves separate that alienates them with the majorities.
It is the measures they take to make themselves separate that alienates them with the majorities.
If we hadn't been a wee bit bothersome, AOG, it would have still been 'acceptable' to discriminate against us in the work environment.....the Age of Consent would still be 21.....there would be no legal recognition of 'relationship status', pension rights, etc. etc.
We could have shut-up and not offended your delicate sensibilities, but some of us would like to see on the laws of the land include *everybody* rather than relying on the 'largesse' of the rest of the population to grant us some sort of parity.
We could have shut-up and not offended your delicate sensibilities, but some of us would like to see on the laws of the land include *everybody* rather than relying on the 'largesse' of the rest of the population to grant us some sort of parity.
IMO the pendulum has swung too far the other direction. It was wrong to stigmatise someone who finds their sexual attraction has gone awry, thus encouraging some idiots to persecute those affected. One should not abuse folk for that any more that you should folk born with a more obvious, for example physical abnormality, such as a hunch back or cross eyes or diminutive stature. But to have carnivals is just to boast of their affliction when the reasonable position would be to simply accept it as part of oneself and know it's not of anyone else's concern. This effect to just push the difference: and to make the ludicrius claim it is a simple alternative when it is clearly an error which 'prevents' continuation of the species on their branch, is ridiculous. No doubt that is the nub of the propaganda claim. Even folk blessed not to have that afflication don't go around celebrating in pubic announcing hetro pride or something. It's simple ego boosting and cocking a snook at the rest of society, and as such is questionable behaviour that is presently tolerated by some societies.
In the early days, Gay Pride (there was only one march a year and it was held in London, and little reported by the media) *was* more of an issue-driven event; high-lighting the inequalities under the law facing gay people.
Since society in general has become more accepting that there is no real reason to discriminate against gay folks, the 'Pride' marches (most have now dropped the word Gay, and many have morphed into 'Mardi Gras' events) have more of a Festival feel to them.......and *all* are welcome to attend.
Since society in general has become more accepting that there is no real reason to discriminate against gay folks, the 'Pride' marches (most have now dropped the word Gay, and many have morphed into 'Mardi Gras' events) have more of a Festival feel to them.......and *all* are welcome to attend.
I would argue differently. AoGs idea that those with a different sexual orientation should just quietly live their lives ignores the depths of dispair that some individuals can feel, and ignores the centuries of stigmatisation and victimisation.
The same applies to this nonsense logical fallacy suggested by NJ - that somehow to restore balance and equality there should be "straight" pride carnivals, or a white police officers association....
And for those that claim that "the pendulum has swung too far" -How so? It seems to me that that response is simply a kind of grudging acceptance that we ought to be even handed to them, but that it is still wrong or abhorrent.
The fact that, from a biological or evolutionary perspective it seems to be counterproductive is an irrelevance - humanity will still persist. And dig a little deeper and you can actually find some evidence to support the notion of a reproductive advantage.
When those individuals are truly accepted by society, then one might imagine that the need for "gay pride" might become unnecessary, outmoded. I do not our society has matured sufficiently as yet.
The same applies to this nonsense logical fallacy suggested by NJ - that somehow to restore balance and equality there should be "straight" pride carnivals, or a white police officers association....
And for those that claim that "the pendulum has swung too far" -How so? It seems to me that that response is simply a kind of grudging acceptance that we ought to be even handed to them, but that it is still wrong or abhorrent.
The fact that, from a biological or evolutionary perspective it seems to be counterproductive is an irrelevance - humanity will still persist. And dig a little deeper and you can actually find some evidence to support the notion of a reproductive advantage.
When those individuals are truly accepted by society, then one might imagine that the need for "gay pride" might become unnecessary, outmoded. I do not our society has matured sufficiently as yet.
New Judge
Originally, the Carnival was much more of a political event (mainly a march).Back in the 70s, gay people didn't have any of the rights enjoyed today and it was thanks to these campaigners that changes in the law came about to treat gay people far more equally.
Because of these progressive changes, the Pride March has focussed less on the politics and more on entertainment.
Also New Judge surely you can see that people can be both different and equal.
For example, women are obviously different from men but just because they are different doesn't mean they're inequal.
I think it boils down to this...if heterosexuals were verbally attacked on the street for being straight, or condemned by the church for having sex with someone of the opposite sex, or killed for being straight, or rejected by their families for being straight, then I would absolutely see the point of 'Straight Pride'.
No question at all.
But I don't think this is the case...is it?
Originally, the Carnival was much more of a political event (mainly a march).Back in the 70s, gay people didn't have any of the rights enjoyed today and it was thanks to these campaigners that changes in the law came about to treat gay people far more equally.
Because of these progressive changes, the Pride March has focussed less on the politics and more on entertainment.
Also New Judge surely you can see that people can be both different and equal.
For example, women are obviously different from men but just because they are different doesn't mean they're inequal.
I think it boils down to this...if heterosexuals were verbally attacked on the street for being straight, or condemned by the church for having sex with someone of the opposite sex, or killed for being straight, or rejected by their families for being straight, then I would absolutely see the point of 'Straight Pride'.
No question at all.
But I don't think this is the case...is it?
Homesexuals should not claim to feel a need for Gay Pride since they have no need to be ashamed of having the issue. In the UK, in recent times, homosexuals are not discriminated against. Indeed as a "minority" pressure group they should find they have more influence.
Of course they are genuine views since they are clearly correct. Let folk be who they are, don't keep shouting about their private matters to the world as if they are especially important and need to remind everyone.
Of course they are genuine views since they are clearly correct. Let folk be who they are, don't keep shouting about their private matters to the world as if they are especially important and need to remind everyone.
"...this nonsense logical fallacy suggested by NJ - that somehow to restore balance and equality there should be "straight" pride carnivals, or a white police officers association...."
I've made no such suggestion, LG. On the contrary I believe there is no need for events to be held or organsations to be formed which identify with any particular group, however much they may be in the minority, or indeed majority. I would be equally intrigued if a "Straight" Carnival or a "White" Carnival were announced. Indeed I would go further by suggesting that any such measures which are clearly designed to enable any single group to promote itself, or advertise itself, or announce itself (or, to avoid splitting hairs over terminology, however else you want to describe it) simply aids to fuel the divisive attitudes that prevail among some people.
One's sexuality, like one's religion, is a personal matter. Nobody else needs to know about it. I cannot understand how, in Northern Ireland for example, people are persecuted for being of the "wrong" religion. I would not dream of declaring my religion to my neighbours and do not want to know about theirs as it is none of my business. So it is with their sexuality. I don't know about, don't care about it and I don't want to hear about it. Why they should want to arrange a march to declare it is beyond my understanding.
I think that's enough from me on this one !!!
I've made no such suggestion, LG. On the contrary I believe there is no need for events to be held or organsations to be formed which identify with any particular group, however much they may be in the minority, or indeed majority. I would be equally intrigued if a "Straight" Carnival or a "White" Carnival were announced. Indeed I would go further by suggesting that any such measures which are clearly designed to enable any single group to promote itself, or advertise itself, or announce itself (or, to avoid splitting hairs over terminology, however else you want to describe it) simply aids to fuel the divisive attitudes that prevail among some people.
One's sexuality, like one's religion, is a personal matter. Nobody else needs to know about it. I cannot understand how, in Northern Ireland for example, people are persecuted for being of the "wrong" religion. I would not dream of declaring my religion to my neighbours and do not want to know about theirs as it is none of my business. So it is with their sexuality. I don't know about, don't care about it and I don't want to hear about it. Why they should want to arrange a march to declare it is beyond my understanding.
I think that's enough from me on this one !!!
When I was young I knew nothing about different sexual needs. It didn't bother me that two young chaps lived together up the road (in retrospect they were obviously homosexual). They were very nice, both of them, and very friendly and helpful. It is only as I have grown older that I have realised the differences. But so what? The one thing I cannot understand is why all the fuss? If they just got on with their lives like the two men I have written about no one would take any notice of them. They would be accepted into whichever branch of society they belonged to. Why do they want to bring it into the open so much?
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