ChatterBank1 min ago
The Stafford Report, About Blooming Time
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Both my mother in law and my Dh had terrible times in NHS hospitals, especially A and E
Both my mother in law and my Dh had terrible times in NHS hospitals, especially A and E
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I have to mention the local newspaper reporter Shaun Lintern who ran with this story, and helped bring the whole thing to light
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A bitter episode in NHS history, and in the words of Peter Walsh..
“We now see ‘perfect storm’ conditions for further ‘Staffords’ to happen, with not only pressures on resources but increased demand, fragmentation, low morale and chaos brought by reorganisation”. He links bad practice to low staff numbers, a message the Government will ignore.
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I'll put this up again as I know how much Sqad likes it(!) One of the reasons UK health costs per capita are much lower than the US is that administrative/management costs in the NHS are one of the lowest in the OECD at 5% compared with 20% in America - so cutting down on management would not save all that much.
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Woofgang - about the consultant /golf thing. I haven't seen that happen in the last 20 years, well not since 1970-something come to think of it.
http://
A bitter episode in NHS history, and in the words of Peter Walsh..
“We now see ‘perfect storm’ conditions for further ‘Staffords’ to happen, with not only pressures on resources but increased demand, fragmentation, low morale and chaos brought by reorganisation”. He links bad practice to low staff numbers, a message the Government will ignore.
http://
I'll put this up again as I know how much Sqad likes it(!) One of the reasons UK health costs per capita are much lower than the US is that administrative/management costs in the NHS are one of the lowest in the OECD at 5% compared with 20% in America - so cutting down on management would not save all that much.
http://
Woofgang - about the consultant /golf thing. I haven't seen that happen in the last 20 years, well not since 1970-something come to think of it.
slaney......I knew that links ans statistics would rear their ugly heads, "robust" statistics to the fore.............but this is all about:
Patients drinking out of vases.....lying in their own excrement.
Between 400 and 1200 deaths above what one would expect......
Unacceptable levels of nursing care.....nurses uncaring attitudes and dismissive of patient's needs.
Patient care secondary to "targets" which would make the hospital look acceptable.
A "secret" list of hospitals which was kept from the public domain into which doctors and medical students would not allow themselves to be admitted to and treated.
During that period of time labour increased the budget 3 fold.
You make make quips about "sqad" and offer "links", but that is the bottom line and that is having to be dealt with.
Patients drinking out of vases.....lying in their own excrement.
Between 400 and 1200 deaths above what one would expect......
Unacceptable levels of nursing care.....nurses uncaring attitudes and dismissive of patient's needs.
Patient care secondary to "targets" which would make the hospital look acceptable.
A "secret" list of hospitals which was kept from the public domain into which doctors and medical students would not allow themselves to be admitted to and treated.
During that period of time labour increased the budget 3 fold.
You make make quips about "sqad" and offer "links", but that is the bottom line and that is having to be dealt with.
A friend of mine is undergoing chemo, she has had to wait 3 hours before being taken into the area where it is administered. Then she has been told to try and avoid crowds because of infection, but because there are not enough staff to take her bloods, she has to sit with all and sundry, often with 40 people in front of her at the blood test area.
She has been having this treatment for 3 months now and the service she is recieving has declined since she has began it.
Your story Mrs. Overall does not shock me, this seems to be the norm in most hospitals now, and Mr. Cameron wants to let more immigrants into this country to put more strain on the NHS.
She has been having this treatment for 3 months now and the service she is recieving has declined since she has began it.
Your story Mrs. Overall does not shock me, this seems to be the norm in most hospitals now, and Mr. Cameron wants to let more immigrants into this country to put more strain on the NHS.
-- answer removed --
Sqad, you misunderstand, not wilfully I'm sure.
The Mid-Staffs report makes truly awful reading, and patients and relatives are right to feel betrayed. My fear is that with increased pressure, massive reorganisation and cost saving exercises that poor nursing will become more widespread.
I was trying to point out that not all NHS hospitals are bad, and that the NHS for all its faults is worth saving, and on the whole ranks reasonably high in world healthcare systems.
Opinion does have to be based on fact.
I spent more time than I would like last September in various NHS hospitals, and indeed were it not for very prompt treatment in the A&E Department of one of them would not be here today.
The Mid-Staffs report makes truly awful reading, and patients and relatives are right to feel betrayed. My fear is that with increased pressure, massive reorganisation and cost saving exercises that poor nursing will become more widespread.
I was trying to point out that not all NHS hospitals are bad, and that the NHS for all its faults is worth saving, and on the whole ranks reasonably high in world healthcare systems.
Opinion does have to be based on fact.
I spent more time than I would like last September in various NHS hospitals, and indeed were it not for very prompt treatment in the A&E Department of one of them would not be here today.
-- answer removed --
The events that happened at Stafford are shocking and disgraceful, make no mistake. There should be at the very least some resignations, and perhaps even criminal charges - and there are anecdotal stories from other hospitals where patients have complained about having received poor, shoddy or appalling treatment. Who can forget the whistleblower documentary centred on the terrible treatment of the patients on the elderly care wards at the Royal Sussex County Hospital, for instance.?
We should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater though. Some are suggesting that what happened at Stafford would never happen in a different system from the NHS, but that simply is not true.
And, despite its faults, its offers one of the best medical systems in the world, and certainly one with the best value for money.
There is a massive, huge difference in spend between the costs of healthcare in the US compared to here in the UK, and the idea that somehow this extra cost is entirely due to illegal immigrants in the US or similar is absurd. 45 million people - 3/4 of the UK population virtually - are unable to obtain any kind of healthcare insurance in the US and are totally reliant upon free clinics. It is down to inflated salaries, an overabundance of well paid bureaucrats, and shareholder profits for the health insurance companies - and for all the talk about healthcare rationing in a socialist system that often gets levelled at the NHS, there is just as much rationing if not more going on in the US by Health Insurance companies, doing what they can to avoid making payments for treatment...
I have myself witnessed the shocking site of hundreds of people queuing around the block overnight in Atlanta Georgia outside a sports centre in order to see a free dentistry and basic GP style clinic, run by a charity.This, is the richest country in the world - a superpower that prides itself on its opportunities and its wealth.
There are undoubtedly issues about the NHS - some of the target culture, a proliferation of middle management, more top down re-organisations that you can shake a stick at, restricting entry to nursing and other ancillary health professions to degree only in an effort to raise the profile of the professions etc - but overall the system works well for the majority of the population.
And if you ever have doubts or concerns about the level of care either you or a family member are receiving, complain, ask questions, demand answers. Go to PALS if necessary.
We should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater though. Some are suggesting that what happened at Stafford would never happen in a different system from the NHS, but that simply is not true.
And, despite its faults, its offers one of the best medical systems in the world, and certainly one with the best value for money.
There is a massive, huge difference in spend between the costs of healthcare in the US compared to here in the UK, and the idea that somehow this extra cost is entirely due to illegal immigrants in the US or similar is absurd. 45 million people - 3/4 of the UK population virtually - are unable to obtain any kind of healthcare insurance in the US and are totally reliant upon free clinics. It is down to inflated salaries, an overabundance of well paid bureaucrats, and shareholder profits for the health insurance companies - and for all the talk about healthcare rationing in a socialist system that often gets levelled at the NHS, there is just as much rationing if not more going on in the US by Health Insurance companies, doing what they can to avoid making payments for treatment...
I have myself witnessed the shocking site of hundreds of people queuing around the block overnight in Atlanta Georgia outside a sports centre in order to see a free dentistry and basic GP style clinic, run by a charity.This, is the richest country in the world - a superpower that prides itself on its opportunities and its wealth.
There are undoubtedly issues about the NHS - some of the target culture, a proliferation of middle management, more top down re-organisations that you can shake a stick at, restricting entry to nursing and other ancillary health professions to degree only in an effort to raise the profile of the professions etc - but overall the system works well for the majority of the population.
And if you ever have doubts or concerns about the level of care either you or a family member are receiving, complain, ask questions, demand answers. Go to PALS if necessary.
LazyGUn
\\\We should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater though. Some are suggesting that what happened at Stafford would never happen in a different system from the NHS, but that simply is not true. \\
Who has suggested this?
You have made this into a NHSv American style conflict.......which it is not.
Like Jake the Peg you have brought finance into this .....which it id not.
Basic levels of care, uncaring and dismissive nurses, do not cost money....just human decency.
I have the feeling that other hospitals and trusts will also come under the microscope in the near future.
This fuels the American worry that they don't want a NHS type of healthcare programme in the USA.
No the baby is not being thrown out with the bathwater, but the bathwater needs refreshing as it is rather dirty.
\\\We should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater though. Some are suggesting that what happened at Stafford would never happen in a different system from the NHS, but that simply is not true. \\
Who has suggested this?
You have made this into a NHSv American style conflict.......which it is not.
Like Jake the Peg you have brought finance into this .....which it id not.
Basic levels of care, uncaring and dismissive nurses, do not cost money....just human decency.
I have the feeling that other hospitals and trusts will also come under the microscope in the near future.
This fuels the American worry that they don't want a NHS type of healthcare programme in the USA.
No the baby is not being thrown out with the bathwater, but the bathwater needs refreshing as it is rather dirty.
My mother was in Stafford hospital at the time when there were all these problems. Understaffing in nursing was a big issue and Patients were moved around the ward repeatedly purely to 'manage beds'. There were matrons but I cant say they were effective in maintaining standards, again the emphasis was on bed management. C Diff was rife and I am sure moving people around the ward didnt help. Infection control measures and treatments for C Diff were useless. There didnt appear to be any willingness from pathology to try different medications which had been trialled and published in medical journals in the US.
An impression I got was that newly qualified nurses hadnt had sufficient experience of hands on care, rather they had become tenders of machines. Hands on care would enable the nurses to get to know their patients better, ancillary staff dont always have the skill to pick up on patients progress or lack of it.
An impression I got was that newly qualified nurses hadnt had sufficient experience of hands on care, rather they had become tenders of machines. Hands on care would enable the nurses to get to know their patients better, ancillary staff dont always have the skill to pick up on patients progress or lack of it.
patsyann I remember matrons, they used to be on the side of the medics who were treated like god (sorry sqad but they were).
slaney the golfing consultant was 2002.....
modern uniforms while not as picturesque as the traditional ones are much easier to work in and better for the backs and necks of the nurses.
LG the problem with complaining and the PALs thing is that it all happens after the terrible treatment.....
After I lost my DH I wrote a letter to the chief exec of the PCT listing where he had been treated and my comments both good and bad and I sent copies to all the relevant head os service and to my GP who I cannot praise highly enough.
slaney the golfing consultant was 2002.....
modern uniforms while not as picturesque as the traditional ones are much easier to work in and better for the backs and necks of the nurses.
LG the problem with complaining and the PALs thing is that it all happens after the terrible treatment.....
After I lost my DH I wrote a letter to the chief exec of the PCT listing where he had been treated and my comments both good and bad and I sent copies to all the relevant head os service and to my GP who I cannot praise highly enough.
Standards are falling fast, not enough beds or trained staff on duty. I had to go to A&E for a scan, a young woman came to me and asked for my particulars in front of a room full of people. She looked as though she had dropped in from her way from M.A.S.H draped in green, totally scruffy, looking ridiculous, image concious, she was apparently a doctor! My first thought was God help me! Don't ask about Philipino night nurses.
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