Crosswords3 mins ago
Euro laws
I was told a few years ago that there was only 1 area of UK legislation that was not "over-ruled" by European Law. I can't remember what it was, only that it was quite trivial and that the Eurocrats had most of the power. Can anyone help?
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Hate to tell you loosehead but the EU is not "another country", it is a collection of countries of which the UK is a full and willing member and takes part in all its decisions. Also, the issue of metrication was one suggested by Britain many years before the EEC came into existence, and grocers cannot be prosecuted for selling goods in imperial measures. It is only when they refuse to indicate the equivalent weight in metric that they can be pulled up.
note the apostrophe after the S in Countrys' that means more than one country.
We may be involved in the decisions and we may pay the piper but we never call the tune. When do the EU establishments ever find in our favour? We obey the rules, the other countries ignore the ones they don't like. The finances are so corrupt that the accounts haven't been signed of for 10 years. The commission is so rife with nepotisn and general corruption that the whole lot resigned at once a couple of years ago, guess what they are all in their jobs again. Old Kinnochio appointed commission VP with a special job to root out corruption, what's the first thing he does? Nail some poor sod to the wall for blowing the whistle on the Commissioners bent activities!
Can you or any Europhile please tell me what good being in this club does us? I mean would you join a club where it's always your round and the other members can make you do what they want? No I didn't think so!
Delboy is absolutely correct. I have participated in a no. of threads on this subject so I am not going to repeat the same things ad infinitum because it gets boring after a while. The UK and Italy have the worst track record in the EU for transposing Directives into national law so it is incorrect to state that we obey and the others don't. The accounts are signed every year. There was a time when Parliament used its role in approving the accounts to carve out more power for itself but it was a long time ago and it has resulted in improved democracy. Only one Commission has ever resigned, Edith Cresson's, circa 1996. Nobody makes anybody do what they want in the EU. In fact historicaly, the UK has done very well in standing up for itself, a minority of one against the majority. Think Working Time Directive but there are a no. of other examples. All member states are equal. The real power rests with the European Council and the Council of Ministers made up respectively of the member states' PMs and Ministers. They look after their national interests. I am not going to visit this thread anymore because it gets tedious after a while. To answer the original question, Criminal and Land Law are still largely untouched by EU law.
delboy3 wrote:
Will you two pack it in??! We're not "subjugated" by EU law, nor do the "Eurocrats" have most of the power. There's no Europe-wide conspiracy to stamp out British sovereignty or national decision-making. Honestly; go back to reading the cartoons in The Sun.
We are subjugated by EU law because it has always been so since the Treaty of Rome, as confirmed by the Factotame judgement. The EU commissioners and council of ministers do indeed have most of the power, and the EP has very little power. There has never been any suggestion of a "Europe-wide conspiracy" to stamp out sovereignty or decision-making, but there has always been a conscious and overt conspiracy by the EU to do so, and has been openly admitted by many EU leaders. I do not read the Sun (cartoons or otherwise), and I will not apologise for having the moderate and reasonable view that we should be ruled by our own elected and accountable parliament and government in the UK, rather than an unelected EU commission and a bureaucratic over-regulated dictatorial wasteful corrupt EU political system.
I suggest that if you are so hell-bent on supporting the corrupt dictatorship of the EU, and eroding the national sovereignty of the UK, then it might be more helpful if you were to use rational and logical arguments (as I have done) rather than insulting people in such a puerile and patronising way.
http://www.cec.org.uk/press/glossary.htm
Read this link, loosehead and bernardo, but I expect you'll think it's all propaganda as it's from the European Commission itself so must be a bunch of lies.
Loosehead, the Commission did not resign in 2003, it volunteered to resign in 1999 - yes, due to nepotism on behalf of one Commissioner (who was almost jailed) not all 20. And no, only a couple managed to retain their positions not every one of them.
I can't argue against the sacking of the whistleblower or the unsigned accounts but hey, nothing's perfect. Doesn't make it a seedy, corrupt, wasteful dictatorship. Read the (decent) papers - there's plenty of alarming incompetencies in the UK Government (e.g. DTI, CSA) but you don't have much to say against them.
The European Parliament - made up entirely of directly elected members, has the final say in any decision. If they don't like it, it gets voted out.
I try not to insult people, bernardo, but when faced with infactual rantings against an organisation which has no effect on our everyday lives, I see red. And let's face it, the vast majority of Europhobes read The Sun and Daily Mail.
What have you got against an organisation that only tries to do good for Europe, building it into a economic power bloc to counter the USA, China & India? That has eradicated all chances of war between its member states (forget NATO & nuclear weapons, and Yugoslavia was never an EU member), that has helped poorer countries (Ireland, Spain, Greece etc) enjoy higher standards of living, has helped us trade and travel around Europe much more freely, and so on? Exactly what happens in your everyday life that makes you stop and think, "bloody EU meddling again"? I wonder. Get off that bandwagon, it's got wonky wheels.
And let's face it, the vast majority of Europhobes read The Sun and Daily Mail.
That may be so, but I am not a Europhobe; I am pro-European.
What have you got against an organisation that only tries to do good for Europe,
I have nothing against an organisation which does good for Europe. I am opposed to the EU because it is bad for Europe - politically and economically.
...building it into a economic power bloc to counter the USA, China & India?
It is an inefficient bloc which is riddled with corruption, false accounting, waste, inefficient subsidies, over-regulation of businesses and farmers and fishers, unaccountable (indirect) political structures. What's the point in having a "bloc to counter the USA, China and India" if it means that our own elected parliament is unable to make half of our own laws because they are made elsewhere?
That has eradicated all chances of war between its member states (forget NATO & nuclear weapons, and Yugoslavia was never an EU member),
Why should I so conveniently "forget" NATO? There has never been any realistic prospect of war between EU member states, and there would never have been any even if the EU had not existed. The only prospect of war in Europe was between the Wstern democracies and the Eastern bloc - that war was prevented by the strength of NATO. Why are you telling me that Yugoslavia was not an EU member? Did anyone suggest that it was?
...that has helped poorer countries (Ireland, Spain, Greece etc) enjoy higher standards of living,
because they are subsidised by the richer ones
...has helped us trade and travel around Europe much more freely, and so on?
It should be possible to have free trade and travel without there being any need for a political union.
Exactly what happens in your everyday life that makes you stop and think, "bloody EU meddling again"?
Billions of pounds of funding which the UK has to pay to the EU every year; the CAP which takes up nearly half of the EU budget so that inefficient farmers in France or Poland can be subsidised by UK taxpayers and so that farmers are paid for growing nothing, and fishers are paid to throw dead fish back into the sea.
Get off that bandwagon, it's got wonky wheels.
I'm not on a bandwagon. I'm a free-thinker. But I'd rather be on a democratic bandwagon than an uncontrollable juggernaut.
because they are subsidised by the richer ones
...has helped us trade and travel around Europe much more freely, and so on?
It should be possible to have free trade and travel without there being any need for a political union.
Exactly what happens in your everyday life that makes you stop and think, "bloody EU meddling again"?
Billions of pounds of funding which the UK has to pay to the EU every year; the CAP which takes up nearly half of the EU budget so that inefficient farmers in France or Poland can be subsidised by UK taxpayers and so that farmers are paid for growing nothing, and fishers are paid to throw dead fish back into the sea.
Get off that bandwagon, it's got wonky wheels.
I'm not on a bandwagon. I'm a free-thinker. But I'd rather be on a democratic bandwagon than an uncontrollable juggernaut.
Again I'll ask the question, what suddenly stops you in your tracks every day and makes you hate the EU?
Since you ask the same question again, I will give the same answer again:
Billions of pounds of funding which the UK has to pay to the EU every year; the CAP which takes up nearly half of the EU budget so that inefficient farmers in France or Poland can be subsidised by UK taxpayers and so that farmers are paid for growing nothing, and fishers are paid to throw dead fish back into the sea.
and
The EU commission (unelected) and council of ministers (not directly elected) make more than half our laws, and prevents the UK parliament (elected) from making laws in those areas
If it is such a bad thing then why haven't UKIP done better at the polls?
Because the UKIP has been riddled with internal faction-fighting, is opposed to Proportional Representation, has right-wing economic policies, is against the devolved assemblies in Scotland, Wales and London, (despite clear support from the local people in those areas) it invited the murderer Tony Martin as a guest speaker to its annual conference, it has repeatedly falsely claimed to be the "only" democratic non-racist non-sectarian moderate party opposed to membership of the E.U., and has repeated these claims in spite of being aware of other such parties, it adopted a discredited TV personality as a candidate, in spite of the fact that the party members had already voted for their own candidates months earlier, it has a restrictive attitude towards immigration and asylum seekers, and it is amateurish in getting its message across, and because many millions of voters are being constantly bombarded by pro-EU propaganda by the EU itself and by the pro-EU newspapers and/or the voters are stupid
No, you haven't answered the question, you've just repeated the same old garbage that doesn't hold water.
The UK pays in less than �5 billion to the EU each year, but gets back �3 billion. That's not such a huge deficit, and in percentage terms we get back more than most other countries do.
The CAP is controlled by national governments, so France & Poland (which have the most agricultural land in the EU) are responsible for how it is spent.
Fishermen are over-efficient in their trawling methods, which is why they scoop up tonnes of fish they don't want. The EU is trying to rectify this so that fish stocks don't disappear and the fishermen lose their livelihoods.
The European Commission is chosen by our elected government representatives, and approved (or not) by our directly elected MEPs. And no, they don't make up half our laws - only 9% of UK law is as a result of EU legislation, and that figure is falling rapidly.
Where is all this EU propaganda you claim? I don't recall being "bombarded" by Europe at any time in my life. In fact, from what I see in the papers and on TV, all the propaganda appears to come from the anti-EU side.
The reason UKIP didn't fare so well is because they mainly stand for a policy which the vast majority of the UK public either doesn't care about, or strongly disagrees with. Your statement that the voters "are stupid" just shows your true colours.
No, you haven't answered the question, you've just repeated the same old garbage that doesn't hold water.
I have already answered your question about 8537 times, and if you are going to revert to insulting people then I won't bother continuing this thread.
Your statement that the voters "are stupid" just shows your true colours.
That bit was, er, what is technically known as a "joke", obviously.
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