Nhs Identity Cards

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2287531/British-citizens-forced-carry-ID-cards-access-free-NHS-care-crackdown-health-tourism.html

In view of the NHS being abused by health tourists, would the introduction of NHS membership ID cards be a good idea?

[sp1814]

em10 is correct.

Chip and PIN has reduced the amount of credit and debit card fraud, but has not eliminated it.

That's not to say that the introduction of some form of registration would completely fail - it just would not be 100% water tight.

[FredPuli43]

Well, aog, did you not notice the remarkable choice of headline words "could be forced" and "ID cards" when compared with such facts as are disclosed in the story? If you do notice such things and are not swayed by the headline then there's no point in my pointing them out.

[emmie]

and anyone who travels needs an EHIC card, which also has your details, not a photo, but everything else...

[emmie]

could be is not the same as will be... ID cards won't stop fraud, determined crooks always find a way to beat the system

[sp1814]

em10

The difference with identity cards is the idea that we would have to carry something around all the time that would be a constant reminder of the State's intrusion into our lives.

It also carries tones of repressive regimes.

However, it's true that in many, many, many ways we are being tracked by various agencies who have records which are available to the police and security services.

Where we travel, what we buy, what we eat, what websites we look at, who we email/text/tweet, who we associate with...all discernible if we use our credit cards, top up our Oyster card or log into the Internet.

This is why I wouldn't bother killing anyone. I would be arrested within hours (that and all the mess it would create).

[emmie]

gosh, you don't think constant whirring cctv isn't intrusive, being clocked going into and out of virtually every shop, bar, cafe, home, hospital, care home isn't enough... even the local Buddhist centre has CCTV and security on the door,

[emmie]

it isn't just those records that are for police use, but local councils, doctors surgeries, and so on, almost cradle to grave monitoring, big brother arrived when people weren't watching, and now someone mentions ID cards as though it would be a problem, why don't they just microchip us all from birth and have done with it.

[sp1814]

em10

I don't really give it that much thought. In fact, I find electronic surveillance much more intrusive, which is why I won't sign up for a Nectar card (for some reason, I don't want Sainsbury's knowing how much booze I buy over a year).

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Your examples have answered it themselves

British Citizens will not be 'forced' to carry to carry these proposed NHS ID cards, unless they need to access free NHS care.

Exactly what the Daily Mail has said.

You are just putting too much emphasis on the word 'forced', no one (including the Daily Mail) are suggesting one will be taken with their hands and feet shackled to take along their ID cards.

[FredPuli43]

"I thought we had already proven how 'special' we were back in Drake's day", aog ? Careful, you'll have somebody, probably anotheroldgit, complaining that you are dragging up distant history in support of an argument. Still, at least you didn't drag slavery into it.

[e.crespo]

This article by Professor J. Meirion Thomas, consultant surgeon with the NHS highlights the problem with health tourists and the NHS:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8847831/the-next-nhs-scandal/
Our system seems to be easily abused by those intent on obtaining free health care, when not entitled, so what is wrong in expecting them to pay for their treatment, as I would have to if taken ill in the USA or Australia for example?

[Zeuhl]

/You are just putting too much emphasis on the word 'forced', no one (including the Daily Mail) are suggesting one will be taken with their hands and feet shackled to take along their ID cards./

No aog

the dishonest use of a misleading word by the Daily Wail is 'carry' not 'forced'

People will indeed be 'forced'

No card-No treatment means they will be 'forced' to present a card if the NHS facility doesn't know them

But we will not be forced to 'carry' one unless we believe that we might need to visit an NHS facility that will not only not know us but will have reason to suspect our entitlement.

The concept of 'carrying an ID card' is inextricably linked with the idea that one must be able to show it when challenged at random by a police officer - as people were required to do in the UK during WW2.

[whiskeryron]

So the British ID card is rearing it's head again, so be it. Once more I will say what has been said by many people for years. WE NEED ID CARDS IN THIS COUNRY. How else can you sort out at all official departments including the NHS those of us who are genuine Brits from the illegals who SHOULD NOT BE HERE. I was quite happy to carry an ID card during WW2 & cannot for the life of me understand the objections raised against them.

WR.

[emmie]

no objections, just that they like all documents can be forged,

[jake-the-peg]

This is just a nationalist excuse for a "foreigners robbing us" political rant.

there's nothing as potent as pointing to some foreigner and saying - he's getting your share.


So why do I trivialise it? - because it's trivial

None of these rants put it into perspective because when they do it's clear that it's trivial.

Noted right-wing rabble-rouser Richard Littlejohn has bandied around a £200 million figure

Not noting that this refers to way less than 1% of the NHS budget

Indeed his estimate seems deliberately inflated and the true answer is likely to be 10 times lower

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/health_tourism_costs_nhs_reform-2805

If this was really about the NHS we should be worrying about the fact that nearly 10% of NHS budget goes on diabetes


But it isn't about the money - it's about stirring up resentment of anybody seen as foreign

[Zeuhl]

/I was quite happy to carry an ID card during WW2 & cannot for the life of me understand the objections raised against them. /

Because they were useless WR

Having a piece of cardboard to show a policeman might have given everyone a cosy feeling

But I suspect the Germans worked out how to print them pretty quickly don't you?

They weren't a security measure - they were a morale booster

[emmie]

if i have one, and it's a forgery but no one can tell the difference, proves i am entitled to NHS care, treatment, British, non British won't make a tuppence worth of difference. I wonder if there were ID card forgeries during the war years?

[emmie]

this is from 2009 the last time the idea was mooted i think

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3127696.stm

[jake-the-peg]

Yup they downgraded the proposal to being optional in the end didn't they?

Made them pointess

That's the problem

If you have to carry them they're opperssive

If you don't they're pointless