Plebgate, No Adequate Evidence?

[FredPuli43]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/mar/28/lebgate-file-contains-no-evidence-that-police-lied

The Yard's investigation has produced no evidence sufficient for the CPS to recommend any charges against officers directly involved in 'plebgate'. Is anyone surprised ?

[Gromit]

Presumably you didn't read past the headline to the bit that goes....

// Thursday night, the CPS indicated it was unhappy with the file it had received from the Metropolitan police and was awaiting more evidence. //

No I am not surprised that the police investing themselves failed to find any evidence.

[Svejk]

These DP officers do appear to be a law unto themselves. They need a thorough clear out,imo.

[murraymints]

Given the revelations of falsehoods perpetrated by the constabulary...the whole thing likely to collapse and forgotten about...

[emmie]

if it as was put forward a police officer gave evidence of wrong doing by Mitchell, but wasn't actually on the scene at the time, surely that is wrong and should be taken up...

[murraymints]

Agree em..but likely to be all brushed under the carpet..but a man has lost his reputation and job because of it.personally I have no faith or trust in the police authorities.some of the dirtiest folk I know are in the force...AND you can buy ANYTHING in the police club...

[murraymints]

Should read dodgiest ..maybe dirtiest is better though ! Lol

[emmie]

i think the majority of the police do a hard and often dangerous job, but one thing i do know they stick together

[FredPuli43]

Gromit, that the CPS is awaiting more evidence does not negate my question.

[mikey4444]

Nobody should be surprised, one little bit, that the police in this case can't seem to find any evidence that any of their number were guilty of anything at all ! After all, turkeys rarely vote for Christmas when given the opportunity.

But I remembered listening to the Today program and hearing, live on air, an interview with someone who had pretended to be present in Whitehall at the time that the offence was supposed to be committed. It turned out that the person in question was a serving policeman. Surprise surprise !

As he admitted that he wasn't there with his young son at the time and that he lied through his teeth, and therefore couldn't possibly have witnessed anything, I am somewhat puzzled that the police "can't find any evidence " ?

Perhaps they need some help to look for evidence of this kind, from an entirely independent body, without the taint of the police hanging around it.

It is sometimes said that "you can always tell when a politician is lying because his lips are moving". Perhaps it would be more appropriate to include policemen as well.

It is obvious that elements of the police in Britain are out of control and can't be trusted to see old ladies across a busy road, let alone issues of more importance. How long are we supposed to wait before this is admitted by the powers to be and something is finally done ?

[LazyGun]

I find it difficult to understand why this whole affair was not investigated by the IPCC.

And, like Mikey, I remember hearing audio of that one police officer admitting his "substantiating" eye witness report was made up, so I do not understand why he would not be charged....

[FredPuli43]

To be fair, the Man Who Wasn't There's case is being considered by the CPS, with a view to prosecuting him for misconduct [in a public office]. Looks to be a true bill (forgive the pun). Should get home on that, and it can result in a severe sentence of imprisonment. It's an easier charge than obstructing the course of public justice; if you falsely claim to have seen something which had, in fact, occurred (granted that it may not have, but the standard of proof gets in the way), how is that 'obstructing the course'? Perjury proper, is ruled out, though tempting , because his statement hasn't been tendered in 'a judicial proceeding'.

That police officers might invent shocked bystanders is no surprise. It's done to justify arrests for public order and discrimination charges. Policemen have been doing the like for years. Women had to be seen to solicit two men before the charge could be laid. Amazingly, every woman arrested for soliciting around King's Cross had approached two men of exactly the same description. It was exactly that of two officers, a sergeant and an inspector at the police station for King's Cross, as well.Strange that !

[LazyGun]

See,thats why I like this site - had never heard of that thing about soliciting before Fred :)

[FredPuli43]

It got better LG. Years ago, a barrister reported that he'd been in court when one of these King's Cross soliciting charges came up. As the first officer gave evidence of the first man being supposedly solicited the Stipendiary Magistrate said to him "And I suppose the second man was of this description..." and then recited the formula for that second man's description. And,of course, the stipendiary was dead right, as proved by the officer mechanically reading on from his notebook. Didn't make any difference though.

[LazyGun]

I am so naive at matters pertaining to the law and the police. Thats a hoot :)

How is it though that if everyone knew this stuff was being made up, no one ever objected?

[FredPuli43]

Well, LG, that's a good argument for professional magistrates. A Stipendiary had been an experienced barrister or solicitor before becoming a magistrate. They are now called Deputy Judges. They've seen it all.They should bring knowledge and experience, and a degree of worldly cynicism, to the job. That should mean knowing what goes on. A bench of trained amateurs cannot have all of that. The professional is quick, efficient, knows the criminal law, knows how villains, defendants in general, and policemen think and act and is not slow to disbelieve any of them. One of the best had been in the DPP before spending some years at the Bar both prosecuting and defending. He once referred two policemen for consideration for perjury charges, in his court, in a single day. But he was just as tough with bad defendants.

And the criminal bar knows what goes on. When its practitioners make it to judge, they don't forget.

[LazyGun]

Seems to me that professional magistrates would improve the system somewhat.

I know we have a system that allows for lay magistrates - people "of good character" and "good standing in the community" that apply, then get some sort of basic training - but it has always seemed a tad haphazard to apply justice this way to me.....

[ludwig]

// the CPS indicated it was unhappy with the file it had received from the Metropolitan police //

I bet it was one of those treasury tag ones and they wanted a proper ring binder.

[Gromit]

I had not appreciated that this story is based on leaked information. The Police Report for the CPS should not be in the public domain until the CPS has made its judgement.

It looks like the leak has come from the Police and Mitchell has now reported it to the IPCC.