So What Do Our Resident Bocialivts...
News1 min ago
Makes Me Sick That People Like This Are In Our Country
It really makes me sick that we have people like this in our country.
Why did we think so little of ourselves that we allowed people like this to come here.
This was such a great country, and so many people would want to come here, that we could afford to be choosy. But we weren't and we let any old scum in.
We really are slowly (quickly) being dragged down to a third world country.
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Why did we think so little of ourselves that we allowed people like this to come here.
This was such a great country, and so many people would want to come here, that we could afford to be choosy. But we weren't and we let any old scum in.
We really are slowly (quickly) being dragged down to a third world country.
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although it's been with us for a long time jim
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//Seeyas laters !// - English, as she is spoke by the natives??
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//Seeyas laters !// - English, as she is spoke by the natives??
@jim......yes.....taking your final paragraph, I think that you are quite correct..........at least....I hope so.
I was one of the era that you mentioned and i am not sure what contribution my comment is going to add to the thread;-)
I was brought up in an underprivileged area in the UK with "parents" who were "working class" and labourers. They were totally prejudiced against the "Blacks" and that was in the late 40's and early 50's. Without these black immigrants the NHS would have completely broken down.
During a Tory administration and Tory council, like many other "poor boys" I obtained a scholarship to Grammar school and it was whilst representing the school at sports and visiting Public Schools like Oundle, Uppingham that i was first introduced to "blacks".....good at sport,well educated and came from abroad.
Racial prejudice was a "working class" issue.
Again, going to a London Teaching Hospital i was introduced and studied with students from Ghana, Ceylon (as it was then) and Iraq. No HINT of racial prejudice.
I am not sure what i am trying to say......LOL....or adding to the thread in any useful way......except that racial prejudice in the UK was a working class issue which has now enveloped the whole spectrum of British Society.
Why?.......I feel that the way that it has been "uncontrolled" has contributed to this situation.
I was one of the era that you mentioned and i am not sure what contribution my comment is going to add to the thread;-)
I was brought up in an underprivileged area in the UK with "parents" who were "working class" and labourers. They were totally prejudiced against the "Blacks" and that was in the late 40's and early 50's. Without these black immigrants the NHS would have completely broken down.
During a Tory administration and Tory council, like many other "poor boys" I obtained a scholarship to Grammar school and it was whilst representing the school at sports and visiting Public Schools like Oundle, Uppingham that i was first introduced to "blacks".....good at sport,well educated and came from abroad.
Racial prejudice was a "working class" issue.
Again, going to a London Teaching Hospital i was introduced and studied with students from Ghana, Ceylon (as it was then) and Iraq. No HINT of racial prejudice.
I am not sure what i am trying to say......LOL....or adding to the thread in any useful way......except that racial prejudice in the UK was a working class issue which has now enveloped the whole spectrum of British Society.
Why?.......I feel that the way that it has been "uncontrolled" has contributed to this situation.
It's been uncontrolled to some extent. But mainly just un-addressed. The views of people like VHG, baz, etc., have been ignored rather than tackled, so that a whole group of people feels alienated. I think their views are wrong, and as just another person I have every right to ignore them, but politicians have and had the responsibility to talk more about this and to listen. Listening doesn't mean accepting the views, but as far as I am aware the only major immigration speech from around 1950 onwards was Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood". Not really a very good record.
Jim360 - //The "problem" of race in particular emerged around about the 1950s, when immigrants from the former colonies started making their way here. It got heated for a while, but things settled down within a decade and Jamaicans and Indians//
I would argue that this ignores the fact that these immigrants were from commonwealth countries who's values and culture were not too dissimilar to ours.
The immigrants of today come from countries who's values and culture are in many cases polar opposites of ours and that some practices (child marriages, female circumcision etc.) are totally abhorrent to a civilised western society, yet we seem to be turning a blind eye to them for the sake of cultural cohesion.
I would argue that this ignores the fact that these immigrants were from commonwealth countries who's values and culture were not too dissimilar to ours.
The immigrants of today come from countries who's values and culture are in many cases polar opposites of ours and that some practices (child marriages, female circumcision etc.) are totally abhorrent to a civilised western society, yet we seem to be turning a blind eye to them for the sake of cultural cohesion.
I think the fear of immigration amongst the working class is often more acute, Sqad, because of the fear that they will be a source of competition for those manual and low-skilled jobs, together with other perceptions that colour opinion - depress wages, increase the competition for housing - all of that. So it is seen as a real threat, and indeed from an economic perspective it can hardly bee seen as anything else.
Prejudice based upon race is not confined to the working class though - witness the "white flight" from the suburbs, fuelled in part by the view that such immigrants would bring down house prices.
And the casual almost unthinking racism and unthinking assumed superiority of the white upper- middle or upper class male is pretty sickening to see.
What I object to is perception, prejudice and personal recollection fuelling the debate, rather than facts, as well as the confirmation and selection bias of many when seeking those "facts".
There is no question in my mind, for instance, that big business was rubbing its hands with glee whilst new labour were in power at the influx of cheap labour from eastern europe, which helped to drive down the wage demands of the indigenous workforce and create a climate of fear and uncertainty. Pronouncements from every head of the CBI on this issue all through that decade are evidence of that.
But the global movement of people,in search of a new or better life, or better prospects, or opportunity cannot be denied. The USA was formed on such principles. We cannot turn back the clock, we cannot stuff the genie back in the bottle, unless you wish to turn the UK into some kind of insular authoritarian nightmare of a place like North Korea.
Colour of ones skin should not be an issue for anyone, nor what colour we might all be in 50,100 or 500 years time - its an irrelevance. What is important is to determine which cultural values are core to our identity, that are worth fighting for and keeping.
Prejudice based upon race is not confined to the working class though - witness the "white flight" from the suburbs, fuelled in part by the view that such immigrants would bring down house prices.
And the casual almost unthinking racism and unthinking assumed superiority of the white upper- middle or upper class male is pretty sickening to see.
What I object to is perception, prejudice and personal recollection fuelling the debate, rather than facts, as well as the confirmation and selection bias of many when seeking those "facts".
There is no question in my mind, for instance, that big business was rubbing its hands with glee whilst new labour were in power at the influx of cheap labour from eastern europe, which helped to drive down the wage demands of the indigenous workforce and create a climate of fear and uncertainty. Pronouncements from every head of the CBI on this issue all through that decade are evidence of that.
But the global movement of people,in search of a new or better life, or better prospects, or opportunity cannot be denied. The USA was formed on such principles. We cannot turn back the clock, we cannot stuff the genie back in the bottle, unless you wish to turn the UK into some kind of insular authoritarian nightmare of a place like North Korea.
Colour of ones skin should not be an issue for anyone, nor what colour we might all be in 50,100 or 500 years time - its an irrelevance. What is important is to determine which cultural values are core to our identity, that are worth fighting for and keeping.
Lazygun ' big business rubbing its hands with glee, etc.'
Hallelujah.
For years in this country the very people whose lives have been devestated by mass immigration have been totally ignored. Accused of racism & bigotry.
If the only affect of immigration is to make your asparagus tips cheaper in Waitrose you will, of course, be comfortable with it.
Please try and develop some empathy.
Hallelujah.
For years in this country the very people whose lives have been devestated by mass immigration have been totally ignored. Accused of racism & bigotry.
If the only affect of immigration is to make your asparagus tips cheaper in Waitrose you will, of course, be comfortable with it.
Please try and develop some empathy.
svejk
It would be astonishing if the only positive aspect if immigration was limited to the price of fruit and vegetables.
I am from a working class immigrant family and feel sympathy with those who feel they can't express their worries over immigration without being labelled a bigot.
Unfortunely, the people who are most vocal about immigration drag the debate down to such an extent that it all becomes a big shouting match.
Some may argue that it's because the topic, like defence, is emotional.
And I think it's wort remembering that amongst those who shout loudest about immigration...some genuinely are uneducated bigots.
Not all, by any means...but some.
It would be astonishing if the only positive aspect if immigration was limited to the price of fruit and vegetables.
I am from a working class immigrant family and feel sympathy with those who feel they can't express their worries over immigration without being labelled a bigot.
Unfortunely, the people who are most vocal about immigration drag the debate down to such an extent that it all becomes a big shouting match.
Some may argue that it's because the topic, like defence, is emotional.
And I think it's wort remembering that amongst those who shout loudest about immigration...some genuinely are uneducated bigots.
Not all, by any means...but some.
@Svejk - "Please try and develop some empathy" Is this directed at me? Who I am not displaying sufficient empathy to?
I was trying to point out that much of the immigration of more recent decades has been actively encouraged by big business, only too happy to induce fear and uncertainty in the work force reduce the levers of negotiation and to depress the hourly wage. I have every sympathy for those who feel displaced or threatened by this. It is with them that my sympathy and empathy reside - not with those who regularly prate on about the country being mongrelised, or what have you.
I was trying to point out that much of the immigration of more recent decades has been actively encouraged by big business, only too happy to induce fear and uncertainty in the work force reduce the levers of negotiation and to depress the hourly wage. I have every sympathy for those who feel displaced or threatened by this. It is with them that my sympathy and empathy reside - not with those who regularly prate on about the country being mongrelised, or what have you.
@chris perhaps - I'm not familiar enough with Jamaican, Indian etc. culture to know that. Though you're probably right since they were colonies and had been exposed to British culture for a long time. Maybe the modern set of immigrants from Afica and Eastern Europe are less "British-ised" but that won't last for ever - though there are always going to be the sort of "teething pains" as they settle in, or not.
Some people never do settle in, but I'd have thought (or hoped!) that this changes once the second/ third generation immigrants are around.
Some people never do settle in, but I'd have thought (or hoped!) that this changes once the second/ third generation immigrants are around.
