ChatterBank1 min ago
I Wonder If Sofyen Belamouadden's Murder Will Still Be Remembered In Twenty Years Time?
47 Answers
Who? I hear some ask, yes that is exactly my point.
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Interesting to note however that violent video games have been blamed for the murderous savagery of these thugs.
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Interesting to note however that violent video games have been blamed for the murderous savagery of these thugs.
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trigger, we blamed TV and films. And then a lot was blamed on comics. Before all that , our ancestors blamed the brothers Grimm. The old TV cowboy films had people shooting others all the time. I saw an early Lone Ranger programme in which the hero shot dead a villain when the villain was unarmed, wounded, and on the ground. (No wonder the Lone Ranger wore a mask) That was shown to children in the 1950s.
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An extremely spurious assertion by a DCI is *not* evidence that video games cause such awful acts. All the research relating to video games' impact on their consumers indicates that there is no correlation whatsoever between playing violent video games and commiting violent acts. The idea that video games break down one's perception of reality is complete speculation and hasn't got a scrap of evidence supporting it.
On several of your threads, AOG, I have pointed you to the relevant research on this subject and every time you have ignored it. But then again I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given your hostility to things like research or book learning.
I'm not convinced that you know anything whatsoever about video games (let alone violent ones). So I challenge you to provide some credible evidence supporting the argument that violent video games cause violent behaviour.
On several of your threads, AOG, I have pointed you to the relevant research on this subject and every time you have ignored it. But then again I suppose I shouldn't be surprised given your hostility to things like research or book learning.
I'm not convinced that you know anything whatsoever about video games (let alone violent ones). So I challenge you to provide some credible evidence supporting the argument that violent video games cause violent behaviour.
The Lone Ranger was taking a piss in the bushes when a rattler jumped up and bit him right on the head of his d*ck...
"Quick Tonto" he shouts, "Ride to town and get the Doc"...
The Doc tells Tonto "I cant go with you, but if you suck out the poison, he'll live"
When Tonto returns, The Lone Ranger says "Tonto, what did the Doc say..?"
Tonto replies "Kimosabi, you gonna die!"
"Quick Tonto" he shouts, "Ride to town and get the Doc"...
The Doc tells Tonto "I cant go with you, but if you suck out the poison, he'll live"
When Tonto returns, The Lone Ranger says "Tonto, what did the Doc say..?"
Tonto replies "Kimosabi, you gonna die!"
Re: video games (from Wikipedia):
One of the most common criticisms of video games is that it leads to increased tendencies for violence in youth. Numerous studies have been conducted on this topic and several have found a correlation between these two aspects.However, several other major studies by groups such as The Harvard Medical School Center for Mental Health, The Journal of Adolescent Health, and The British Medical Journal have found no conclusive link between video game usage and violent activity."
One study [note - this study isn't identified in Wiki] did find an increase in reports of bullying, noting, "Our research found that certain patterns of video game play were much more likely to be associated with these types of behavioral problems than with major violent crime such as school shootings
One of the most common criticisms of video games is that it leads to increased tendencies for violence in youth. Numerous studies have been conducted on this topic and several have found a correlation between these two aspects.However, several other major studies by groups such as The Harvard Medical School Center for Mental Health, The Journal of Adolescent Health, and The British Medical Journal have found no conclusive link between video game usage and violent activity."
One study [note - this study isn't identified in Wiki] did find an increase in reports of bullying, noting, "Our research found that certain patterns of video game play were much more likely to be associated with these types of behavioral problems than with major violent crime such as school shootings
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All the studies referenced in that article which concluded that video games are linked to aggressive behaviour date from 2001-2003 - i.e. within 2 or 3 years of the Columbine massacre, for which video games quickly became a scapegoat.
Kutner & Olsen went back to these studies in 2008, including a now notorious neurological study linking video games and copycat behavior, and exposed severe methodological flaws and conclusions that extrapolated hugely from the data collected.
The reference for the report on bullying again dates from 2001 and is in stark contrast to the US govt's National Threat Assessment Center on school violence published at around the same time, which saw no correlation:
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Kutner & Olsen summarise their research:
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Former FBI Profiler denies that video games cause violence (but argues that they can incense people who are already seriously disturbed, just as any violent media can:)
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All the studies referenced in that article which concluded that video games are linked to aggressive behaviour date from 2001-2003 - i.e. within 2 or 3 years of the Columbine massacre, for which video games quickly became a scapegoat.
Kutner & Olsen went back to these studies in 2008, including a now notorious neurological study linking video games and copycat behavior, and exposed severe methodological flaws and conclusions that extrapolated hugely from the data collected.
The reference for the report on bullying again dates from 2001 and is in stark contrast to the US govt's National Threat Assessment Center on school violence published at around the same time, which saw no correlation:
http://
Kutner & Olsen summarise their research:
http://
Former FBI Profiler denies that video games cause violence (but argues that they can incense people who are already seriously disturbed, just as any violent media can:)
http://
Davethedog
/// If Stephen Lawrence wasn't of Afro-Caribbean descent I don't think AOG would be asking this (or other) questions about the case. ///
That is just the type of accusation I have come to expect from you and others.
What has his 'Afro-Caribbean decent' got to do with it, are you saying that if he had been of Nigerian decent it would have been perfectly in order to post on the subject, and have you not noticed that Sofyen Belamouadden was also a person with a black skin, if that is what is really disturbing you?
No my whole argument about the Stephen Lawrence case was the fact that it has been put up as different from all other murders, whether or not the victims had been black, white or any other colour between.
Please answer me this, (which no one has so far done), why is he so remembered that after twenty years, and at a memorial service, his family has the privileged honour of having the Prime Minister of Great Britain, his deputy, the Leader of the Opposition, the Mayor of London and other dignities in attendance?
Many have only recently complained about the funeral of Baroness Thatcher, perhaps if she had been of 'Afro-Caribbean descent, would they would have also been blamed of 'racism'? Because that is what you are actually trying to label me with, but it would seem that you are not brave enough to come out with it.
/// If Stephen Lawrence wasn't of Afro-Caribbean descent I don't think AOG would be asking this (or other) questions about the case. ///
That is just the type of accusation I have come to expect from you and others.
What has his 'Afro-Caribbean decent' got to do with it, are you saying that if he had been of Nigerian decent it would have been perfectly in order to post on the subject, and have you not noticed that Sofyen Belamouadden was also a person with a black skin, if that is what is really disturbing you?
No my whole argument about the Stephen Lawrence case was the fact that it has been put up as different from all other murders, whether or not the victims had been black, white or any other colour between.
Please answer me this, (which no one has so far done), why is he so remembered that after twenty years, and at a memorial service, his family has the privileged honour of having the Prime Minister of Great Britain, his deputy, the Leader of the Opposition, the Mayor of London and other dignities in attendance?
Many have only recently complained about the funeral of Baroness Thatcher, perhaps if she had been of 'Afro-Caribbean descent, would they would have also been blamed of 'racism'? Because that is what you are actually trying to label me with, but it would seem that you are not brave enough to come out with it.
Gromit
/// In answer to the question you didn't ask. No, video games should not be banned just as films and books should not be banned. ///
Blimey am now being accused of asking questions that I didn't ask?
I didn't ask that question because I am not asking for video games to be banned, I was merely commenting on the Judges words, in light of past suggestions regarding video games.
/// In answer to the question you didn't ask. No, video games should not be banned just as films and books should not be banned. ///
Blimey am now being accused of asking questions that I didn't ask?
I didn't ask that question because I am not asking for video games to be banned, I was merely commenting on the Judges words, in light of past suggestions regarding video games.
The answer ,aog,is that the Lawrence case falls into the category of "national embarrassment" as perceived by the Prime Minister and other politicians, because of the way it was conducted. The racist element was just the beginning. You may or may not view it as such, but that's the reason for their involvement (and there may be votes or an improvement in their image in their so doing)
jim360
/// It's not comparing like with like. We have a case here where the criminals were charged and found guilty within about a year of the crime, and prosecuted far earlier than that. While the crime is sad, horrible and brutal, justice has also been seen to be done. That never was the case for Stephen Lawrence. ///
Only fifteen out of twenty of the gang, and some of them were only given manslaughter sentences.
I consider this brutal killing much more horrific than anything Stephen Lawrence endured
/// Victoria Osoteku, 20, the only female to be charged, was jailed for 12 years for manslaughter, along with three other youths. She was seen on CCTV kicking Sofyen in the head as he lay dying on the ground after the 12-second attack and also helped with buying the knives that were used in the fatal assault. ///
Take a look also at the stash of weapons these savages possessed.
/// It's not comparing like with like. We have a case here where the criminals were charged and found guilty within about a year of the crime, and prosecuted far earlier than that. While the crime is sad, horrible and brutal, justice has also been seen to be done. That never was the case for Stephen Lawrence. ///
Only fifteen out of twenty of the gang, and some of them were only given manslaughter sentences.
I consider this brutal killing much more horrific than anything Stephen Lawrence endured
/// Victoria Osoteku, 20, the only female to be charged, was jailed for 12 years for manslaughter, along with three other youths. She was seen on CCTV kicking Sofyen in the head as he lay dying on the ground after the 12-second attack and also helped with buying the knives that were used in the fatal assault. ///
Take a look also at the stash of weapons these savages possessed.
/// I wonder, too, if Madeleine McCann will be the only missing child case remembered from the last decade. Very possibly. That's because her parents kept the case in the public eye, and not for any more sinister reasons. ///
It is all dependant on whether or not the parents etc, are given the facilities, the voice, and also anyone who is prepared to listen to them.
How many protests have taken place and petitions handed into Downing Street, which all fell on 'deaf ears'?
Regarding the Madeleine case, wasn't there also a mother who's child went missing in Greece never to be found, I believe he was called Ben Needham, I wonder why she didn't get the privileged treatment handed out to the McCanns,
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It is all dependant on whether or not the parents etc, are given the facilities, the voice, and also anyone who is prepared to listen to them.
How many protests have taken place and petitions handed into Downing Street, which all fell on 'deaf ears'?
Regarding the Madeleine case, wasn't there also a mother who's child went missing in Greece never to be found, I believe he was called Ben Needham, I wonder why she didn't get the privileged treatment handed out to the McCanns,
http://
You certainly didn't respond particularly to any of my points. Indeed, for that matter, I'm not sure what your point even is.
Certain crimes just stick in the public memory, and some never do. It's often not even for any particular reason. Some of the most "brutal" and peculair crimes are often forgotten, and some fairly commonplace crimes are remembered. In the case of Stephen Lawrence, again what is remembered is not so much the crime but also what it said, or appeared to say, about our police force. There were far less soul-searching needed about poor Belamouadden -- everyone there saw who did it, so that while it was horrifying it was also "just a crime".
Certain crimes just stick in the public memory, and some never do. It's often not even for any particular reason. Some of the most "brutal" and peculair crimes are often forgotten, and some fairly commonplace crimes are remembered. In the case of Stephen Lawrence, again what is remembered is not so much the crime but also what it said, or appeared to say, about our police force. There were far less soul-searching needed about poor Belamouadden -- everyone there saw who did it, so that while it was horrifying it was also "just a crime".
Mr Lomas
First don't you threaten me for answering my own question, sometimes that is the only way of getting a sensible answer on this site.
/// Does anyone else get the feeling that the daily fail after having been caught out so many times for deceit, misdirection and the encouragement of mass hysteria have now stealthily employed forum/chatroom users to bring their fail filled nuggets to the credulous masses under the guise of a trusted knowledgeable source? ///
Perhaps if it hadn't been for the 'Daily Faiil's' (your prejudiced description not mine) deceit?, misdirection? and the encouragement of mass hysteria? to bring their fail filled nuggets to the credulous masses under the guise of a trusted knowledgeable source?????????????? the Stephen Lawrence case would never had been further investigated.
/// "I would like to give praise to the Daily Mail and Paul Dacre for their bravery in naming the suspects on 14 February 1997. ///
/// "This helped keep the attention of the country and police on the need to find the evidence which would lead to a full trial and possible conviction of the killers. ///
/// "Without the Daily Mail, I do not believe this would have happened." ///
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That's a Guardian link if that suits your prejudices more.
First don't you threaten me for answering my own question, sometimes that is the only way of getting a sensible answer on this site.
/// Does anyone else get the feeling that the daily fail after having been caught out so many times for deceit, misdirection and the encouragement of mass hysteria have now stealthily employed forum/chatroom users to bring their fail filled nuggets to the credulous masses under the guise of a trusted knowledgeable source? ///
Perhaps if it hadn't been for the 'Daily Faiil's' (your prejudiced description not mine) deceit?, misdirection? and the encouragement of mass hysteria? to bring their fail filled nuggets to the credulous masses under the guise of a trusted knowledgeable source?????????????? the Stephen Lawrence case would never had been further investigated.
/// "I would like to give praise to the Daily Mail and Paul Dacre for their bravery in naming the suspects on 14 February 1997. ///
/// "This helped keep the attention of the country and police on the need to find the evidence which would lead to a full trial and possible conviction of the killers. ///
/// "Without the Daily Mail, I do not believe this would have happened." ///
http://
That's a Guardian link if that suits your prejudices more.
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