I Wonder How Many Wealthy Pensioners Would Be Prepaired To Hand Their Benefits Back?have Handed Their

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22327335

Should all such benefits be 'means tested', and where would this end, should 'rich' pensioners also be made to pay for NHS health care etc?

[youngmafbog]

AOg, except that IDS has not said they must give it back, he has said they can give it back if they want to as has been the case for some time. This was in response to a question from an interview that the press have taken and distorted, particularly the left wing press such as the Independent and the BBC.

For those claiming there is no way to give it back, try the webnsite you will find a hotline number.

[anotheoldgit]

EDDIE51

/// AOG it has been established that 'means testing' would cost far far more in administration than the government would save , its a no brainer ! ///

Yes, but all those who wish not to receive the Winter Fuel payment, Bus Pass, Christmas Bonus, free TV Licence or even their Pension, could choose to have their names removed from the mailing lists of beneficiaries, that would cost almost nothing.

[anotheoldgit]

I wonder how much the extra 25p in state pension given to over 80 year olds costs the government in administration, that ridicules increase would not be missed by any pensioner.

[FredPuli43]

Yes, aog,but that still makes exclusion voluntary; it is not excluding all those who are wealthy and who would take the benefit and neither opt out nor give it to charity. Those people would be still receiving money wrongly, in the opinion of some. And it's possible that someone has already thought that having an opt out provision would cost money in some form, and be open to errors, while not achieving a perfect result.

[jim360]

Yes, but [pensioners could choose to have their names removed from the mailing lists of beneficiaries, that would cost almost nothing.]

Quite -- that wouldn't be means testing, though. I'm not sure how hard that would be or not to set up, but I expect there might be a way to make it ridiculously complicated. The "mailing lists" may be part of a more general list so that removing you from one removes you from all.

[ashfordshe]

Do away with all "benefits" and "means testing" and raise State Pensions to an acceptable level, so pensioners can save or spend as they wish - think of the costs which would be saved in administration alone! Not to mention fraudulent claims.

[cassa333]

As with any benifit that the state gives, I think they should be the absolute minimum to get by. The indidvidual (or couple/family) then make provision for the rest. For the 'uplift' and extras in life.

The benifit system should not give anything anywhere near the national average pay. Minimumal existance levels and YOU the individual should then provide for yourself/family.


Although for the most part pensioners have paid into the system all their lives there is a growing number that haven't and that number is set to grow. Why should they be the same as those that have contributed? Why should those that have contributed be either penalised or in some cases worse off than those that haven't?

My parents worked hard all their lives and paid into the system and made provision for their old age so why should they give any of it back to pay for someone who didn't?

Having a fare system isn't just about giveing everyone the same. It is making sure everyone gets their fare share. And a fare share should be based on what you have contributed.

[jim360]

The problem with a "bare minimum to live" is that:

- what constitutes the "bare minimum" is constantly changing due to inflation, regional differences and so on;
- Not everyone who hasn't paid much into the system was necessarily lazy or undeserving. Circumstances such as family pressures or long-term illnesses may have kept them out of work, through no fault of their own;
- Some people stuck on that bare minimum might not even have a family to provide for them and make up the difference, and, because they were on that bare minimum, will likely not be able to do much about it themselves.

While, yes, benefits should track contributions at some level, the minimum payout oughtn't be set so that it's a struggle to live. Not to "exist", but to live. The problem is in part due to the fact that life expectancy has increased dramatically. Previously a small pension would be covering only a few years of life beyond retirement, but now the same annual pension has to sustain 15 or even 20+ years. Such a length of time, equivalent to almost my entire life so far, spent on merely the bare essentials of life with nothing to spare for luxuries or entertainment would be intolerable.

Better for pensions to track contributions, but the minimum level be set at a point so that people can do more than just life, but live in some level of comfort -- regardless of whether the pensioner has family or some personal wealth to make up the difference.

[aelmpvw]

i'd be interested to know if there is a millionaire pensioner that has a bus pass

[New Judge]

Janet Street-Porter must be quite wealthy and she has a free bus pass which she uses copiously.

"...these allowances appear to be triggered automatically""

No they are not, LG. One has to apply for a free bus pass and winter fuel allowance. If you don't apply you don't receive either.

[FredPuli43]

There'll be some millionaires who claim a bus pass, even if they rarely use it. It's something for "nothing", in one sense. Some of the ones I know will cheerfully write out a payment for several million; that's business; but wince when they have to part with £50 in cash. If you've started out with nothing, and even £5 cash was a lot to lose when you started, that thinking never dies and the pain persists however much you have in later life.

[jno]

How many rich pensioners use buses anyway ?

Me. I'm not rich, much less a millionaire, but tolerably well off. I have a car but I don't go driving into London with it. Buses, trains, tubes are all fine by me and I use them whenever I can. Like other reasonably well off pensioners, I didn't get that way by wasting money. Millionaires will quite likely apply for free travel and feree medicines, as I have.

[craft1948]

I've never applied for the fuel allowance............

[New Judge]

"It's something for "nothing", in one sense"

Not quite for nothing, Fred. It's more like something for a lifetime of large payments to the Exchequer in terms of income tax, NI and multifarious indirect taxes.

[FredPuli43]

NJ, that's why I put "nothing" in inverted commas and added the words "in one sense"

[LazyGun]

@NJ OK.I have done some checking ;)

You have to apply for a Bus Pass. You have to apply for the free TV licence, but you are not eligible for that until you are over 75.

The Winter Fuel Payment is automatically made to anyone in receipt of the state pension - you do not have to apply.

I still cannot see why it would be so difficult or so expensive for those recipients of state pensions, winter fuel allowances etc to be able to simply sign a form voluntarily giving up their entitlement, if they are wealthy enough and if they so wish.

[boxtops]

I agree with Janet Street Porter in today's DM http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2316304/JANET-STREET-PORTER-Hand-bus-passes-TV-licences--You-joking-Iain-Duncan-Smith.html

The people in Government who are making these sweeping statements have no concept of being on a reduced budget

[New Judge]

I think we're both right in a sense, LG. The Winter Fuel Payment is payable to people who have reached women's State Pension age (which is currently being phased from 60 to 65). This means that men who have reached this age but who are not eligible for a State pension are eligible for the WF payment. They have to apply for the payment.

Sorry Fred, I missed the irony of your inverted commas.