China; Should We Be Bullied By Them?

[Khandro]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10040319/David-Camerons-rift-with-China-could-cost-UK-billions.html
Should we allow China to dictate to whom our Prime Minister may or may not meet?

[daisya]

IMO no we shouldn't nor any other country for that matter (nor us bully anyone else either).

[Bbbananas]

No.

[I.Caramba]

We do not have to do what China wants us to.

China does not have to trade with us.

Do you mind losing billions in a good cause like this?

[mushroom25]

by him meeting with the dalai lama, the UK is effectively interfering in internal chinese affairs and giving a voice to someone they consider to be a terrorist.

can we really be that surprised at their reaction?

[bibblebub]

It's been well-known for years that China doesn't like other countries cosying up to the Dalai Lama so Cameron was well aware of how the Chinese would probably respond to any meeting.

[jomifl]

If recognising the Dalai Lama means that the UK cannot import cheap chinese goods that undermine our own industry then it wouldn't be a bad thing. The chinese have a very teenage attitude... 'He's not my friend so you can't talk to him and if you do you won't be my friend anymore' that deserves to be ignored.

[jake-the-peg]

This is exactly the problem of being a medium sized nation

Our size means that China can flex it's economic muscles and push us about much the way that the US forced us to abandon Suez by threatening to sell all it's Stirling holdings

China could do the same

Note about 1/3rd of UK government debt is held abroard - much by China

They could just sell the lot - they'd take a big hit but it would collapse our economy.


Compare with when George Bush imposed illegal steel tarrifs - the EU was able to force him to back down in a way the UK alone never could.

Notice that the UK is picking on us for this - not the EU as a whole

As part of the EU we have the worlds biggest economy and that's to big a threat even for China,

We should deal with this on a European level, other European states may have the same issue with China and we shouldn't let them pick us off one by one

Strength in Unity

That's the story of the 21st century I'm afraid - get big or get lost

[Khandro]

mushroom25; HH The Dalai Lama is patently not a 'terrorist', and I don't think even the Chinese think that, however if they did, they would be wrong and that would be an even greater reason to ignore their pressure. Free countries must defy Chinese blackmail and greet the Dalai Lama, Germany has more than any other country within the EU consistently made him welcome and it has not affected their trading.
The three 'T's of which these bullies would like us to conveniently forget are; Tibet, Taiwan, and Tienanmen Square.
I am not the greatest fan of the Government, but I am proud for the country that they have shown no cowardice in this matter and long may they continue to do so.

[jake-the-peg]

And what if they start to sell our debt Khandro?

How far are you willing to see the economy dive to uphold your take on morality?

I sort of agree but these are not simple decisions, as I say if we try and stand alone on this China is perfectly able to push us about.

Of course the rest of Europe may not feel very inclined to stand by us these days!

[jomifl]

I'm not so sure that China's economic muscles are as big as they would like us to believe. Their economy seems to be teetering a little and it does depend on trade with the west.

[jim360]

By teetering do you mean growing by only 7.7% a year in the first quarter?

China's economy is huge and set to get huger. I still wouldn't want to bow to their pressure just because of that, but it's best not to underestimate their growth in influence.

[Kromovaracun]

The Dalai Lama is an exiled former dictator. His reign in Tibet oversaw massive poverty, huge illteracy, and human neglect. We also have evidence suggesting the use of tortures in Tibetan prisons under his leadership. He can't seriously be said to be that much better than the current Chinese government (which certainly is not less brutal or murderous, but has at least developed the region and increased literacy to a far greater degree than the DL would ever have bothered to do).

DC's meeting with the Dalai Lama, frankly, smacks of desperation. He became a cause celebre among celebrities in the 1990s and this is essentially no different. It is not worth gambling with our economic relations over and at a time when the UK sorely needs investment was a rather stupid thing and self-aggrandizing to do.

[Kromovaracun]

*Urgh. Stupid and self-aggrandizing thing to do.

*torture

[jake-the-peg]

On what do you base that ide JOMFL?

400 Billion of UK government debt is held abroad much in China

All China has to do is stop buying UK government bonds and our sales of bonds will not find enough buyers. That means we would have to drastically increase interest payments on bonds in order to finance our debts.

I'm sure you're aware of what that would mean - the Government would have to cut public spending even more drastically than it has already which would push us into recession.

That's just if they stopped buying our debt

If they started selling it too things would start to get really ugly

[Khandro]

Kromovaracun; I think you would do well to ask ANY Tibetan what they think of their Dalai Lama, and what they think of the Chinese and their occupation of their country, before spreading such misguided rubbish, giving support for the appalling Chinese aggression they have been forced to endure, while most of the world looks away out of fear that it might be financially damaging for action, even to the point of talking to their spiritual leader.

[jomifl]

Jim the achilles heel of the chinese economy is natural resources. The Chinese people now have aspirations which are unsustainable in the long term.

[woofgang]

"We also have evidence suggesting the use of tortures in Tibetan prisons under his leadership."
Who is "we" and where is the evidence?

[jake-the-peg]

China's natural resources are huge!!!

http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=341&

// Mineral resources include large reserves of coal and iron ore, plus adequate to abundant supplies of nearly all other industrial minerals. //

It also has crucially huge reserves of rare earth minerals vital in the semi-conductor industry

In fact it has a near monopoly of them

http://www.livescience.com/29287-is-china-mining-a-rare-earth-monopoly-op-ed.html

Plus much of China's mineral resources have not yet been mined due to the use of old technology.

I really wouldn't see that as China's Achillles heel!

It's Achilles heel is it's ability to control it's huge population and their demands for a bigger share of the pie - at the moment they seem to have that well sewn up!

[jim360]

Its*, jack, if it's the possessive.

Otherwise I completely agree with you, China is a huge economy that is only going to get bigger for many years to come.