Jail Sentences

[sir.prize]

At last judges have imposed appropriate heavy sentences

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/10/horror-of-telford-girls-sex-abuse-ordeal/

[jno]

looks like that might be a longer sentence than for murder? Can that be right?

[sir.prize]

It certainly appears so.

[Gromit]

So if they murdered the girls, they would have got shorter sentences? Not a good message to send out surely?

[sir.prize]

Gromit - this is British Justice. Unbelievably inconsistent.

[Sharingan]

Nasty life damaging crimes but 26 years? If sexual predators get the idea in their sordid little heads that it's more cost effective to them sentence wise to kill their victims ( who after all certainly can't testify against them then) then we have created a very dangerous precedent.

[jake-the-peg]

Longer sentences than murder - yes that could be right

If what we're talking about here is human trafficking (and it sounds as if we are) this means the systematic kidnapping and dealing in people (often children) and forcing them into the sex industry.

This could be fairly described as slavery

Murder on the other hand can be a single one off event committed by someone under the influence of drugs or drink and be something they deeply regret.

It wouldn't be equivilent for a multiple calculated serial killer but those normally attract whole life tarrifs anyway.

I can think of a number of murders less serious than this seems to have been

[ludwig]

^ still pretty serious for the victim though.

[jno]

the objection remains that it's a (potential) incentive to kill your victim, though: you could get a shorter sentence, or none at all if you've silenced the main witness.

The sentence might not be a factor with many murders, it's true. But I wonder with traffickers like these if it mightn't just figure in their calculations.

I'm not actually unhapopy with the sentences; it may be that murderers should get more.

[jake-the-peg]

It is but Ludwig that's not the only factor - the degree of criminality is also a factor.

Otherwise someone causing a number of deaths by drink driving would get the same whole life tarrif as someone like Harold Shipman

[ludwig]

I think the sentences are justifiably long. I can't see a realistic situation where this would act as some kind of incentive to commit murder.
If there is a genuine anomaly, I'd rather see murder sentences adjusted upwards to address it.

[FredPuli43]

Let's hear it for HHJ Patrick Thomas QC.

This type of offender does not think in terms of killing the girl. She is more useful to them alive, they think of the crime as undetected and undedetectable, killing one or two would certainly bring the police in, on a massive scale, and the sentence could be whole life or would be life with a minimum, before being considered for release, of about 30 years,and that to be served in constant danger (from other prisoners) or substantially in isolation.

[FredPuli43]

^undetectable^

[sir.prize]

Chemical castration would be an option.

[Answerprancer]

I guess the theory is that being interfered with sexually as a minor is a fate worse than death in terms of psycho-sexual issues in later life.
A matter of debate IMO.

[RATTER15]

No,Sir Prize it would not be an option unless it was done as well as the sentance, not instead of.

I think they got what they deserved and not a minute more!

[sir.prize]

Of course RATTER, it should be 'as well as'.

[jake-the-peg]

Castration is not currently used in the UK - there is an argument for it but in terms of preventative.

It is not appropriate as a punishment

Otherwise you're into cutting off hands of thieves and other 6th century barbarisms

[jake-the-peg]

That's a long and complex debate - personally I'm not a fan of it.

The US provides a perfect example of how badly it works - or rather how it fails to work.

They have a massive murder rate so it doesn't function as a deterrent

The process is long and convoluted

and if youre poor ypure way more likely to be executed