Could It Be That They Are Going To Conduct Random Searches?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2323294/Luton-shooting-16-year-old-boy-condition-police-offer-1-000-information.html

/// 'Any person carrying a firearm or weapon on the street can expect to be confronted by armed patrols who will search them, arrest them and prosecute them. ///

/// 'We understand that there will be a number of law-abiding citizens who will be affected by this action. ///

That must mean 'Random' searches.

/// 'We hope that they will understand that this action is being taken to keep them and their loved ones safe and they will agree with us that this level of criminality will not be tolerated. ///

Incidentally you can all relax, the suspected gunman is reported as being white, sorry to spoil your fun.

[FredPuli43]

Yes,jno,that follows. It's a risk that gun owners with authorisation do have to face, if they are carrying the weapon lawfully.It also applies to people carrying knives.For example, a chef on his way to work might have his own knife or knives with him.There are other exemptions too

[jno]

yes, that makes sense and I have no problems with it. I just hadn't thought of that angle before.

[anotheoldgit]

/// Any stop and search of someone who is carrying a firearm or weapon on the street, would not be random,would it ? How are you defining random,in such a case? ///

Of course it wouldn't and if some were not busy twisting my words that would be obvious.

In this case when Assistant Chief Constable Andrew Richer said "We understand that there will be a number of law-abiding citizens who will be affected by this action" he meant not those who carry a gun licence that is just being silly, he meant that he was going to random conduct stop & searches and in the process of such action a number of law abiding citizens would be affected, as that is what random means picking a group of people hoping that one or two may be carrying.

But seeing that the suspect in this case happens to be white, there will be no reason for any black person to be affected in anyway.

[jim360]

will be no reason for any black person to be affected in any way.

Certainly not, in this case. In others, such as the Black murders you keep posting about, you would hope that stop-and-searches would specifically target Black people if they were looking for the murder, and it would equally not be racist.

The problem lies in general. Statistics you provided in an earlier thread show that over the span of a year, Black people end up being stopped and searched disproportionately by about a factor of six times (and NOT 28, as the Guardian posted). That overall trend ought to come down, because such a pattern is not random.

[jno]

if the searches are "random" then black people will be affected. If they are "targeted" (at finding the suspect in this case) then they won't.

[sp1814]

No AOG.

I did not prejudge what you said.

You asked:

"should the police now conduct random stop and searches"

The 'now' indicates that that do not do this already.

Same as:

"Could It Be That They Are Going To Conduct Random Searches"?

[FredPuli43]

True,aog,but the officer didn't say that did he? Stopping somebody "in the hope" that they are carrying a weapon is unlawful and random.

[anotheoldgit]

jim360

/// The problem lies in general. Statistics you provided in an earlier thread show that over the span of a year, Black people end up being stopped and searched disproportionately by about a factor of six times (and NOT 28, as the Guardian posted). That overall trend ought to come down, because such a pattern is not random. ///

Perhaps it is because their are more black on black stabbings and shootings, so it is just as pointless picking out whites as it is picking out blacks in this case.

Anyone got a problem with that?

[FredPuli43]

"Anyone got a problem with that?". I depends on the reasonableness of the excuse doesn't it? You'd be a bit alarmed if there was a white on white murder in your area and the local police stopped white people simply because the suspect was white.

[anotheoldgit]

jno

/// if the searches are "random" then black people will be affected. If they are "targeted" (at finding the suspect in this case) then they won't. ///

Random doesn't have anything specifically attached to colour, only if the group they are carrying a random selection of happen to be black or white or any other colour.

If the suspect is black then you target blacks and carry out a random selection of them, and vice versa if they happen to be white.

What's so hard to understand?

[jno]

if you're looking for a particular suspect then the searches aren't random. They're targeted. FredPuli has explained this quite clearly, more than once. Random means anyone at all.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Why is it so hard to understand, this is the last time I will try to get through to you.

Although the Police may still have the power to stop and search and have been seen to do so in the past, and at the moment there is no call for them to carry out one.

A killing then takes place in one's area and people are correct to ask just like myself,

"should the police now conduct random stop and searches"

"Could It Be That They Are Going To Conduct Random Searches"

[anotheoldgit]

jno

/// Random means anyone at all. ///

Within the group so targeted.

I am no longer prepaid to waste my time pondering over semantics.

[jno]

so it's English language 1, aog 0? lol. People have done you the courtesy of responding to the post you wrote, in the words that you wrote it; I don't think you can ask for more than that.

[andy-hughes]

Prepaid??? You're getting money for this?????? How much, and how can we get some!

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// Prepaid??? You're getting money for this?????? How much, and how can we get some! ///

Yes most funny Andy, since it seems that you have set yourself up as yet another AB English teacher, you will not complain if I pick you up on one or two, after all you do make quite a few.

[andy-hughes]

For heaven's sake lighten up AOG!

I knew you would take the huff, but thought that maybe a little humour would lighten yours - and others' little.

Yes I make some grammatical errors, and spelling errors, as do you, as do a lot of people, and as a courtesy I do not pick people up on them, and normally neither do you.

Let's not waste time doing so now shall we?

[andy-hughes]

There you go - point proven!

I was typing too fast for my PC, which failed to put in my complete sentence - "... yours and others' day a little."

So shoot me if you have to, but we would be getting rather sniping and unpleasant if we did that.

I'll leave my humour for other posters, who appreciate it for what it is - humour - not some additional ammunition for your persecution complex.

[sp1814]

AOG

I am at a loss.

I will state again...the police do carry out random stop and searches.

They do it now. Not in the past. But now.

Why are you so confused about this?

No-one else on this thread is confused.

[FredPuli43]

That's the problem though ,aog. You think random may mean "within the group so targeted" But that's saying that all of a group can be picked at random.All black,all white,all young people,can be targeted simply because they belong to that group. Now, how is that targeting? It's an abuse of the word,but one which you are happy to employ, to mean stopping individuals and searching them on the grounds that one, or lots,of the group who share that colour,age or anything else so broad, have committed a crime or crimes.

I ask whether ,if white on white murders occurred in your area,would you be happy if white people were being stopped simply because they were white and the suspects were white? What if the suspect was of your age? Are the police to stop anyone in the area simply because they are white and of your age? That's what the complaint is about.