Bedroom Tax

[marje]

So, there's been a suicide because of the 'bedroom tax'. Poor woman couldn't afford the £80 per month for 2 empty bedrooms when her children left home. How many more before it's abolished?

[Sharingan]

Not at all Octavius. We have staggeringly heard from a some people on here who actually work in mental health that they think anyone considering suicide is mentally ill. I thought that outdated attitude was dead in the 60's, I consider that not to be the case, and it is pertinent to the discussion to establish that this lady may or may not have been mentally ill, as it's easy for the government to dismiss a 'mentally ill person' who had 'other problems', not so easy for them to dismiss this lady as being of perfectly sound mind but unwilling to live under the burden the state had chosen to put her under. there will be many more suicides both by mentally ill people and those not suffering from mental illness over so called 'bedroom tax'. Move on if you wish, I think this point needs addressing, and you seem the one who is indignant that other people dare express opinions contrary to yours.

[jim360]

Besides which, Sharingan, it seems more polite to call someone mentally ill, (which is a seriously common illness by the way -- virtually everyone I know has been affected by depression at some level or other) than impulsive, stupid or ignorant. It seems for more respectful to say that they had sadly lost control of their rationality -- through, it should be added, o fault of their own.

[Sharingan]

Sqad, I disagree and if the person is calm rational and not exhibiting erratic behaviour or depression then yes they should toddle off and mind their own bloody business. :)

[Sqad]

Shari....LOL...it doesn't work like that....the person "toddling off" would probably be sued by your relatives for not acting.

[Bbbananas]

Does this bedroom tax apply to private tenants?
I ask as I live on my own in a 3 bedroomed house and have no plans to move for a while yet.

[Octavius]

A person "of perfectly sound mind but unwilling to live under the burden the state had chosen to put her under" may well choose to end it all by dropping too many pills and falling asleep on their setee.

In my view, they don't intentionally walk in front of lorries.

[Bbbananas]

Poor lorry driver.

[naomi24]

Bbbananas, it only applies if you are in receipt of housing benefit. If you're not, it won't affect you. It's not a tax as such - it's a reduction in benefit.

[sherrardk]

Bbbananas - it applies to people who live in Housing Association properties and are in receipt of housing benefit.

[Zeuhl]

/the mental health professional should "sit back" and allow you to take your life.........as it is "yours?" /

'allow'!!!

What gives the mental health professional ultimate 'veto' over someone else?

Bearing in mind it isn't so long since mental health professionals were forcing electric shock to the brain, lobotomies and mind-altering drugs on people 'for their own good' I think it is inappropriate for anyone to suggest they should be able to impose their 'model of the world' on someone else

[Sharingan]

Exactly Zeuhl, thank you for understanding my point.

[emmie]

it had to happen, and believe me those not affected by this change won't get how much of a strain, difficulty it can be. Perhaps the point is even if she had underlying issues, this just was the straw that broke the camels back.

[Svejk]

If your not an OAP and Housing Benefit pays your rent Bbbananas.

[Sqad]

Inquest of a suicide.

Prosecuting council:"Was there any suggestion that the diseased contemplated suicide?

Dr or Health worker: Yes she said that she felt like committing suicide.

Pros. Council: "What was your reaction to that?"

Health professional: "I just toddled off and left it to her"

[jim360]

For the first time I've see, I think your age is catching up with you a bit Sharingan. To pretend that most people, or indeed any significant number, who commit suicide did so rationally is to completely misunderstand the problem. People lose perspective. Things can pile up and become a far greater problem in their head than they are. I won't estimate a figure, because I don't know, but in no case that I have heard of, and I have heard of a few, was suicide the rational answer to a rational problem. That is, leaving aside the cases of assisted suicides of people living in daily physical pain, discussed at length elsewhere.

If you have considered some scenarios where you would rationally want to kill yourself, I'm slightly surprised, although it does depend on the scenario. If you think that this particular case was one such scenario, you are mistaken. If you think that cutting off your life to spite my offer of help is a legitimate reason, you are mistaken. Your life isn't worth making such a point over. And if you think that most people who committed suicide thought at the time like you do now, you are mistaken. Such people need help to face their problems and learn how to overcome them, and should not be ignored.

[emmie]

support by the way is not always at hand, not unless you are in a hospital already on a suicide watch, services are being cut left right and centre, so please stop with the idea that there are adequate mental health resources, there aren't and there haven't been as long as i can remember.

[Bbbananas]

Thank you Naomi, sherr and svejk.
I get no benefits whatsoever apart from the single person council tax deduction.

[jim360]

I never said there were adequate resources for mental healthcare. My experience with the NHS wasn't exactly brilliant. A long waiting list, followed by a "threat" to cut off NHS care while I was also looking into a local charity.

[jake-the-peg]

First thing I'd ask was whether she was bipolar

It's a sad fact that up to 50% of people with that disorder commit or attempt suicide. 10-20 times the average figure.

[Zeuhl]

sqad

Fair point but i think what is being suggested is more like:

Prosecuting council:"Was there any suggestion that the deceased contemplated suicide?

Dr or Health worker: Yes she said that she felt like committing suicide.

Pros. Council: "What was your reaction to that?"

Health professional:

"I applied all the recommended treatments and procedures as documented, but ultimately the deceased made their own decision"