Britain Faces Paying An Extra £770Million To Brussels This Year.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2324853/Britain-loses-EU-budget-battle-pay-Brussels-EXTRA-770million-year.html

Is this yet another reason why we should be allowed an EU in-out referendum now?

If Cameron thinks he can fool the electorate into putting him in power for a further five years, on the promise that he will grant us a referendum after they are back in power, he has another think coming.

Didn't he promise us one the last time?

If anyone is interested in getting out of 'Europe' then UKIP is their only choice, because if Labour gets in with or without the Lib/Dems support, we will never rid this yoke from around our shoulders.

[jim360]

I obviously wasn't around in 1972 -- but the aim of the EU (then EEC, right?) was always going to be greater political union. Its effective father, Jean Monnet, said so. It was his idea for achieving peace.

It's never not been public. I wonder how come in 1972 no-one noticed.

[Gromit]

// he has another think coming //

Oh it seems like only a few days ago you were pulling people up for their typos, and now this lapse... ;-)

[Mojo-Jo-Jo]

There's nothing wrong with that phrase Gromit.
http://grammarist.com/usage/another-think-coming/

[New Judge]

Have a look at this pamphlet which was issued to everybody prior to the 1975 referendum, jim:

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/pamphlet.htm#11

The whole thing makes interesting reading but in particular look at Page 5 (the aims of the common market). No mention of political or fiscal harmonisation or union.

Also glance at pages 11 & 12 (will Parliament lose its power?). “No important new policy can be decided in Brussels or anywhere else without the consent of a British Minister answerable to a British Government and British Parliament.” Yeah, right.

This is what we were given in 1975. I dare say if a referendum were to be held now we’d be given something very similar.

[jake-the-peg]

They want an in out referendum now because the EU US free trade area is being negociated.

Getting people to agree to leave that will be a much harder sell

If we can afford £14 Billion to renew Trident whose only purpose is to inflate the egos of politicians then we can afford to be part of the worlds largest economy.

But then this isn't about money is it?

If being part of the EU were entirely cost neutral - or even if it made us money - you still wouldn't want to be part of it would you?

Because you think that there's something inherently special about being British and being part of this wider union somehow degrades that.

It offends your patriotism

it's pride pure and simple

go on tell me I'm wrong

[jim360]

"To bring together the peoples of Europe" was the closest it came... thanks for sharing NJ.

As things stand, if we had a referendum now I'd vote yes at least partly on a "better the devil you know" idea -- though it's clear that if there ever is a referendum I'll need to do a lot more reading before I get bombarded by propaganda.

[askyourgran]

I'm all for Ukip's policy on Europe and immigration, but how tough are they on other British political matters and foreign policy. Are they strong in Westminster? Are they just a one-trick pony? Can they hold their own against the whinging Labourites and wet Liberals and the Etonian set? I have a feeling Farange is a bit too laid-back and at the mo can hardly believe his luck. Whatever happened to Kilroy-Silk who started Ukip?

[jim360]

Kilroy-Silk didn't start UKIP, and never led it. I only just learned this today, I thought he did too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party#History

Founded by Alan Sked in 1993, Kilroy-Silk joined 11 years later and let 9 months after that.

I think you're right about the assessment of Farage, though, UKIP aren't ready for real power with him in charge...

[ichkeria]

UKIP are too right-wing ever to be a serious political threat. Their policies on the EU and immigration are the least scary thing about them.

As for Kilroy-Silk, well he WAS here, but after flirting with UKIP, and being rejected by them as a possible leader, he did actually found a party of his called Veritas, which I believe is still going, albeit without the Silver Fox ...

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

// he has another think coming //

/// Oh it seems like only a few days ago you were pulling people up for their typos, and now this lapse... ;-) ///

I am now pulling you up, not for a typo but for your complete lack of knowledge as regards this saying, if I am wrong then please explain why I have had a lapse?

*** Another think coming is the original form of the colloquial phrase aimed at someone who has a mistaken view. It comes from the old comical expression, If that’s what you think, you’ve got another think coming. ***

[anotheoldgit]

jake-the-peg

//// It offends your patriotism ///

/// it's pride pure and simple ///

/// go on tell me I'm wrong ///

"You are wrong", but I am quite surprised that you haven't included "to satisfy your bloodlust" to your list, you seem so good at inventing things people haven't said?

Still waiting for your apology by the way.

[New Judge]

No, jake, you are wrong (at leas as far as I am concerned).

My dislike of the EU has many foundations, but here are a few of the more important:

I do not like the way it has morphed from a trading bloc (an admirable and sensible arrangement and one which I wholeheartedly support) into an organisation whose sole intention seems to be the creation of a Europe consisting of simply one nation. The 27 member states are simply too diverse to be satisfactorily subject to one set of laws, one set of financial rules, one economy and, most important of all, one currency.

I do not like the notion that we must share our wealth, resources, public services and space with people from nations with whom we have nothing in common and to whom we owe nothing and have no obligations.

I do not like the free movement of people throughout the continent. By this I mean freedom to settle and work (or not, as the case may be). People should only be allowed to settle in the UK if they have a definite job to take up (which cannot be filled by somebody already here) and are sponsored by a responsible employer. It is utter madness to allow hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people to settle here from abroad to either not work at all or to take up low skilled jobs. We do not need any more unskilled labour in this country yet wave after wave of low skilled workers pour in because we have no say over who is allowed to settle here.

I do not like the single currency. Although we are not part of it the Euro is causing untold damage to the UK economy and indeed to the rest of the world, not to mention the hardship it has wreaked among the peripheral nations that use it. On purely logical grounds it would never have been countenanced and was set up simply to satisfy the vanity of politicians intent on creating a Federal Europe. They see it as their crowning glory but refuse to see what a disastrous project it has been.

There are many, many other reasons why I dislike the EU and would prefer to see the UK out of it. We gain no benefit from it which we could not otherwise have if it did not exist or existed simply as a Free Trade association and it will be interesting to see the outcome of the attempts to establish an EU:US trading federation.

None of this has anything to do with patriotism or pride. It is simply common sense for a nation to want to control its own affairs and the UK will never be able to do that whilst a member of the EU.

[jomifl]

AOG Do you seriously think that Britain can survive without the financial and political muscle of Europe. Britain will lose a lot more than £770 million if it pulls out. Ukip are a bunch of blinkered bigots, I've talked to some of their activists, they really have't a clue.

[ludwig]

As someone who is currently undecided on how he would vote in an 'in out' referendum, I have to say that people like jtp need to do a bit better than simply accusing euro sceptics of being Little Englanders, to persuade me that 'In' would be the right choice.

[New Judge]

It will be interesting to see, at the conclusion of the EU:US trade talks, whether, as part of the deal, the US will adopt the Euro and whether it will provide unfettered access to its shores for EU citizens. :-)

[emmie]

where does it say that about the USA adopting the Euro, is that a joke?
they won't give up the mighty dollar any day soon....

[New Judge]

Yes it was a joke, em.

I was making a comparison between the proposed EU:US trading agreement and the "trading agreement" that calls itself the EU.

[bazwillrun]

"Ukip are a bunch of blinkered bigots, I've talked to some of their activists, they really have't a clue. "

whereas people like you want an open doors policy to destroy the cultural heritage and identity of this country

great idea !

[jomifl]

Bas, you do make some amazing leaps of intellect. Sometimes a leap too far. Did I mention doors?