Mandela Critical.

[vakayu]

It does not look very hopeful,people told to prepare for the worst.

[emmie]

you really think that, if so why is the country in so much trouble, if his legacy has been so much.
I admire him, but he isn't a saint, i do hope his passing is painless.

[emmie]

seems some members of his family are quite happy to cash in on his fame,

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/06/23/south-africans-mandela/2450555/

[Sqad]

Yes, I feel that Mandela's time has come.....he has etched his place as a significant and influential icon in South African history.

I have no personal experience, but associates that i have in South Africa, question the improvement of the "lot" of the blacks since the end of Apartheid some 20 odd years ago. Soweto is still a "hell hole" and corruption in the new black government of South Africa is significant.

[emmie]

exactly the point i made before, perhaps on another thread, that poverty is rife, that for many ordinary blacks life has not improved one iota, that corruption is also rife, sad that his life hasn't had more of a real impact on the day to day lives of the people.

[237SJ]

It`s not just Soweto that`s the hell hole. That massive shanty is still going strong outside Cape Town. I have noticed a lot of changed such as hotel staff being black rather than white now. Most small businesses still seem to be run by whites with black workers. I hate to say it but it`s the blacks that do the menial jobs. I never met Mandela although I would have loved to. I met De Klerk and Desmond Tutu though - both nice, cheerful old boys.

[friedgreentomato]

Its is a show to his strength that he has live this long considering his torture and conditions in jail.

Let the man pass in on in peace.

[boxtops]

The hospital told the press that they were doing all they can for him - but his time has come, let him go. I just fear for what may happen to the country when he's not there any more.

[chrissa1]

The ending of apartheid wasn't meant to improve the horrendously downtrodden lives of the coloured, indiginous people in financial terms. It was to give them the simple rights of non-segregation in all walks of life.

He was a great man.

[Brinjal]

I think Mandela is a great man. Someone who was I imprisoned for 27 years and come out without being filled with hatred is someone special. He served one term as president and did not try to hang on to power like some other African presidents. Unfortunately corruption is a way of life in Africa and it will never change. Soweto is a large area on the outskirts of johannesburg. Almost a separate city. There are areas with mansions , middle class and of course the slums so to call it a hell hole in inaccurate.

[emmie]

did anyone look at the link i provided, some members of the family are already squabbling, for want of a better word, over his money, not a good thing at all. Corruption has followed on from corruption, Winnie his first wife seems to have been a rather dodgy character, and nothing much truly has changed, they got rid of apartheid, thankfully, but where is the large scale change that should have come about.

[maggiebee]

Must admit I didn't really know a lot about Mandela till I saw the film Invictus. After that, I read up on him and was impressed. You should read the poem "Invictus", I believe he read this every day while imprisoned on Robyn Island and it kept him going.

[LazyGun]

@Em. Corruption within government may indeed be endemic, the economic status of many not much improved, if at all - This is all true, uncontestable, and it is sad that they have not been able to build on the political impetus of the removal of apartheid.

You cannot just dismiss the removal of apartheid as a kind of trivial thing though. It was a huge, massive paradigm shift. Mandelas legacy is defined by that removal.

Apartheid did not end until 1994. Mandela was president only for the following 5 years. Not sure how much he can be held accountable for the failure of the economy to thrive over there.

[jno]

yes, I was taken on a tour of Soweto once and was surprised to find some parts of it very well off. Winnie Mandela even waved to me from outside her mansion. So "hell hole" doesn't really fit; parts are poor, parts aren't..

[Twenty20]

"a truly great man"
"a life well lived"
"A good soul"

I was wondering, would you post the same comments about, for instance, Gerry Adams?

Both were members of terrorist organisations. Both have blood on their hands. Both rose to high office within their countries.

Perhaps it's because South Africa is a long way away and the terrorism didn't affect us directly in the UK like it did with the IRA?

[FredPuli43]

Twenty, how was Mandela a terrorist while he was in prison; what terrorism did he organise?

And how was he a terrorist before? To the extent that sabotaging government property in the interests of removing apartheid.

Now, did you approve of apartheid? What means would you have adopted for removing it?

[Brinjal]

South Africa didn't suffer the same acts of terrorism the Zimbabwe did