About Time, Agree Or Not?

[friedgreentomato]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2348486/More-100-000-expats-lose-winter-fuel-allowance-Osborne-reveals-plans-temperature-test-benefit.html

Personally I think this is the correct course of action - what are you thoughts on the matter?

[emmie]

what happens if the climate is variable, if say from october to may is cold in the evening, but perhaps bit warmer in the day, then how would you determine who gets what

[jake-the-peg]

Like I said em itreally is very simple tou give the Councils a budget for it

Cumbria gets more than Cornwall based on climate and they manage it as needed

If you're living abroad well then it just doesn't apply any more

[emmie]

i was referring to abroad not here. some seem to have this idea that those people who have moved to France, Spain to live out their days are swanning around, draped in ermine and pearls, the truth is that most are just ordinary folk after some sunshine in their later years. If you or anyone thinks no one outside of UK should get winter fuel payments why are we paying people benefits who don't live here.

[Gromit]

The winter fuel allowance was introduced by that sneaky Blair and that useless Brown. Strangely enough it was helped them win the 1997 election and end 18 years of idyllic Conservative rule. They instantly rewarded all the old age pensioners who they had tricked into voting for them by paying them a sum for winter fuel.
All was fine while that useless but lucky Brown was able to coast along through the longest period of growth this country had ever seen. We could afford the fuel payments because the country was booming. Rather annoyingly, deaths of old people due to the cold didn't really go down. The payments didn't seem to be having much effect and then the crash meant that they were an expensive luxury that we can no longer afford. Which is why Labour and Conservative want to scrap it or reform it.

[Zeuhl]

/If you're living abroad well then it just doesn't apply any more /

why not? If you live somewhere that gets cold?

why should an average income pensioner who has one home - in say Spain - not get it, when in your system, a wealthier pensioner who winters in Spain but has retained a UK address will receive it?

[friedgreentomato]

No at all Em, I do not for one minute think they are running around in ermine and pears!!

My objection is that the winter fuel allowance was brought in to help those pensioners that face higher fuel bills due to the harsh Winter.

Winters in Spain, France etc are not as harsh as Britain and if the pensioners choose to no longer live in the UK they should not be enititled to these top up benefits!

[bednobs]

it seems like a good idea to me - pensioners in this country contribute by paying tax (if their earnings are enough, VAT (both on the fuel they use, and on other things) whereas people not living in this country do not. People not living in this country should not benefit from the things that people living in this country do. Em you talk about those who have contributed and those who have not, but where do you draw the line. My expat uncle hasn't lived in this country since he was 27, and he's now 67. He "contributed" between when he was 14 and 27, but not since then. Should he get it? would living here till he was 37 make him more eligible?, 47? 57? No, the simplest thing is to no let people who aren't in the country benefit from it

[emmie]

fgt, i wasn't referring to you, but some think that those who move abroad are filthy rich, so why should they get benefits, sadly that idea still prevails in all manner of other ways, this class envy nonsense is something they should have got over by now.

[emmie]

then we should not give money to people who have not paid a penny into the system in UK, not one penny, if you haven't worked here, you get nothing, the exceptions being those who are so mentally, physically disabled they would not be able to contribute. Either that scrap all benefits and start again.

[Zeuhl]

/if the pensioners choose to no longer live in the UK they should not be enititled to these top up benefits! /

so why are they still entitled to receive the UK pension?

your criterion of 'residing in the UK' seems to be applied inconsistently

[bednobs]

some people who move abraod are filthy rich, some pensioners who live in this country are too, Being rich has nothing to do with class, it's money envy (in my case anyway!)

[emmie]

majority seem to be the older age bracket.

http://www.expatforum.com/general-considerations/british-born-expats-are-more-likely-to-be-retired-survey-finds.html

[bednobs]

but you are mixing thing up EM - we are talking about the winter fuel allowance. People who don't live in this country, and who have not paid a penny into this country DON'T get the british winter fuel allowance. Also, does the fact that my uncle paid 13 years worth of contributions make you think he's eligible to recieve WFA?

[friedgreentomato]

Em in answer to your question about persons from abroad coming here and getting benefits we have reciprocal agreements with those countries.

[Zeuhl]

/Winters in Spain, France etc are not as harsh as Britain/

Yes they can be

My friend has a place in the south west of France in the foothills of the Pyrenees and his winters are more harsh than most of the UK

[Zeuhl]

Perhaps the answer is increasing the basic pension and getting rid of these troublesome add-ons which are not clearly defined as either 'entitlements' or 'benefits'

[bednobs]

in my mind, it doesn't really matter what the weather is like in whatever country they reside in (after all a fuel allowance could conceivably be for the extra electricity used to run AC as sandy says), more the fact that the person does not live here. I can't imagine losing the wfa would stop people moving abroad, in the same way that losng a pension might!

[friedgreentomato]

OK Zeul perhaps I should say 'in general'

[jake-the-peg]

It's not that they're filthy rich but they're supporting a local economy abroard, they've chosen to live abroad (nobody banished them) presumably for a nicer climate and yet they're claiming an allowance that was designed to help those back in the UK cope with higher heating bills in colder winters.

And half of them sit there on the costa del whatsit reading the Mail and complaining about social security scroungers while drawing their UK winter fuel allowance!

Damn cheek if you ask me!

[bednobs]

ps em, i don't really understand your point about expats being more likely to be older - isn't the WFA only for older people anyway?