About Time, Agree Or Not?

[friedgreentomato]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2348486/More-100-000-expats-lose-winter-fuel-allowance-Osborne-reveals-plans-temperature-test-benefit.html

Personally I think this is the correct course of action - what are you thoughts on the matter?

[emmie]

it does say may get, but quite honestly why should anyone get benefits in this case.


they dhttp://www.nidirect.gov.uk/benefits-for-non-uk-nationals

[emmie]

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/benefits-for-non-uk-nationals

[bednobs]

but that's NOT the question EM, the question is about WFA entitlement

[albaqwerty]

surely one thing which would solve this discussion is that those who have moved abroad, take up citizenship of the country they dwell in instead of still being British?

[jake-the-peg]

Er because they're resident here, paying tax here and working here

//you must be able to prove residency and that you are registered as a worker.//

[emmie]

why should they. And besides those who move here from every port of call don't necessarily settle for good, nor call themselves British.

[jake-the-peg]

ROTFL!

I dare you to tell El-Sqad that Alba!

[emmie]

i know what it's about, and no i don't agree that payments should be stopped for those abroad. if they are wealthy then they could ask for those payments to stop. most people who have moved to Spain, France are unlikely to be the very wealthy.

[emmie]

wait and see when the winter fuel payments are stopped for every pensioner, abroad, here, then see who moans then.

[friedgreentomato]

Well as it is only a recent innovation Em - what happened before it was introduced?

The same as child tax credits and working tax credits!

[Zeuhl]

/designed to help those back in the UK cope with higher heating bills in colder winters. /

isn't the root of this problem the deliberate 'fudge' between:

'helping out needy people' ie social security benefits based on circumstances

and

'a living pension' ie an entitlement earned by people's contributions and payable regardless of their circumstances or location

[albaqwerty]

jake :-D

I still maintain that if you have worked darned hard and have paid into the 'system' then you should still be entitled to any benefits which come out of it.

For those who have only paid in for a decade or so, then they should be denied.

[emmie]

i mentioned this on another thread, in the job centre a woman asked how long before her 19 year nephew could claim benefits, she was told he would have to work 6 months straight, no breaks in the middle, then he would be entitled to make a claim, why......

[woofgang]

I think that it will cost more money to implement than will be recovered. The cheapest way to pay any benefit is to make it universal.

[emmie]

for those who don't know this is the criteria.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/overview

[jake-the-peg]

Nah - woofgang - that's why I suggested letting councils do it

Possibly as a council tax rebate

Dead cheap - they have all the systems and information already

[LazyGun]

Lets not forget the context.

Total Govt Spending 2011- 2012 - £700 billion, give or take the odd billion.
Total Pension Payments 2011 - 2012 - £80 billion, give or take the odd billion
Total Winter Fuel Payments 2011 - 2011 - £2 billion or so, paid out to around 12 million recipients.

So - around 0.3% of total government spending.

Excess deaths during winter in 2007-2008 was around 38,000 elderly, mostly over 75.(prior to the introduction of the WFA)

Excess deaths during winter 2011- 2012 was around 24,0000 elderly, again mostly over 75.

Too many confounding factors to directly attribute the reduction in excess winter deaths directly to the WFA, but it will definitely have played a part, which is a good thing.

Studies have shown that when people are given a sum of money that is labelled, they will spend far more of that money on what it is intended for, so keeping it as a WFA is probably a good thing, from a behavioral point of view. If we just handed out a lump sum or included it as part of the pension, there is evidence to show that far less people would use the money for its intended purpose. So we should keep it as a labelled payment.

If as a country we are that desperate, that lacking in other areas of public expenditure to cut, and you really want to trim the budget for the WFA, make it a taxable benefit - at least 15% of the recipients of state pension have enough income to be paying tax - and increase the minimum age when the payment starts to 70.Again, studies show the majority of excess winter deaths occur in those folk over 75.

[Zeuhl]

em

what is a 19 year old who can't find their first job supposed to live on?

[emmie]

this is a very interesting piece, if you have time to read it

http://www.expatforum.com/general-considerations/as-a-uk-expat-do-you-need-a-winter-fuel-allowance.html

i was referring to the fact that you can get benefits from just six months work,

[emmie]

our heating bills have risen ten fold, so what one could afford last year or 5 years ago may not be the same now. I do know pensioners who struggle to pay their heating bills, and those who worry about it all the time.