Are Labour Preparing To Dump The P M ?
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Helmand's Top Female Police Officer Shot Dead
Once the international community leaves, what hope is there for women? Should we, as Heather Barr, Afghanistan researcher for Human Rights Watch says, do more to ensure women's rights are protected - and if so, what?
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No Gromit, the 299 men were not killed because they were male. Unlike this woman who was specifically targeted and shot, they died as the result of roadside bombs and the actions of suicide bombers. 180 civilians were also killed, and 618 police officers injured.
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I really don’t understand why some people here are so determined to deny the misogyny and inequality that is so prevalent within that culture. That attitude is not only detrimental to the struggles of women who, like this lady, and Malala Yousafzai, shot by the Taliban in Pakistan for wanting an education, are fighting for recognition of their rights as human beings – it’s just plain daft! ‘Liberal thinking’ in this respect serves only to ignore the reality, and hence, in effect, to endorse the philosophy that creates this appalling division - and whilst you might think that’s smart, it does these ladies no favours whatsoever.
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I really don’t understand why some people here are so determined to deny the misogyny and inequality that is so prevalent within that culture. That attitude is not only detrimental to the struggles of women who, like this lady, and Malala Yousafzai, shot by the Taliban in Pakistan for wanting an education, are fighting for recognition of their rights as human beings – it’s just plain daft! ‘Liberal thinking’ in this respect serves only to ignore the reality, and hence, in effect, to endorse the philosophy that creates this appalling division - and whilst you might think that’s smart, it does these ladies no favours whatsoever.
because they don't want to see it that's why. Killed for being female, in a world where women have little or no value, some should take a good look at the record book in UK, 2 women killed every week, by a partner or ex, doesn't make comfortable reading, however how many are killed just because their families, husbands think they have slighted them in some way, honour killings, like the poor women who have acid thrown over them, it's despicable.
A quarter of the world's population are muslim. Most muslim countries are reasonably tolerant and women are treated well. You base your views on a small number of small countries, Saudi, Pakistan, afghanistan where the brand of Islam is extreme and unpleasant.
Not sure Christian and Jewish faiths treat women equally. We have equality in developed western countries not because the christian faith is benign, but because we have nullified its influence and legislated against it.
Not sure Christian and Jewish faiths treat women equally. We have equality in developed western countries not because the christian faith is benign, but because we have nullified its influence and legislated against it.
If you leave any of the Abramic religions to themselves they denigrate and oppress women, not just Muslims. It's a long haul from where we were as little over a hundred years ago to where we are now. The differene between Afghanistan and here is we have already made that journey so can look down our noses with smugness at their 'primitiveness', where as they are just beginning theirs. Of course women's rights should be protected but it will be a long slow process and it's not a problem confined to the Muslim world.
Gromit, //You base your views on a small number of small countries, Saudi, Pakistan, afghanistan where the brand of Islam is extreme and unpleasant.//
I’m not sure when you last looked at a map, but that aside, if you think the countries where the subjugation of women is acceptable are small in number, let’s add Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Yemen, and Sudan to the mix – all of them renowned for their unfailing support of women’s rights, no doubt!
//Most muslim countries are reasonably tolerant and women are treated well.//
Do you actually realise what you’re saying? What the hell does ‘reasonably tolerant’ mean? Are these women supposed to accept that and be grateful? And how does this reasonable tolerance amount to women being treated well? I can’t believe you are actually justifying this blight on humanity!
Shenanigan, your knowledge of Islam is clearly lacking.
youngmafbog, since many of its proponents have brought that culture to this country, we can’t ignore it – and nor should we.
Good grief! When people of the free world don’t recognise the injustices that this obnoxious philosophy endorses, what hope do those women have? I am absolutely appalled!
I’m not sure when you last looked at a map, but that aside, if you think the countries where the subjugation of women is acceptable are small in number, let’s add Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Yemen, and Sudan to the mix – all of them renowned for their unfailing support of women’s rights, no doubt!
//Most muslim countries are reasonably tolerant and women are treated well.//
Do you actually realise what you’re saying? What the hell does ‘reasonably tolerant’ mean? Are these women supposed to accept that and be grateful? And how does this reasonable tolerance amount to women being treated well? I can’t believe you are actually justifying this blight on humanity!
Shenanigan, your knowledge of Islam is clearly lacking.
youngmafbog, since many of its proponents have brought that culture to this country, we can’t ignore it – and nor should we.
Good grief! When people of the free world don’t recognise the injustices that this obnoxious philosophy endorses, what hope do those women have? I am absolutely appalled!
Naomi
There are 2.2billion muslims in the world. The additional countries that you include have small populations. Less than one per cent of the total of muslims.
Populations
Sudan: 30million
Somalia 10 million
Yemem 23 million
I have no idea about Iraq, but I do not think Iran should be on your list. In many ways Iran treats its women well (Compared to Saudi, Afghanistan at least).
// During the era of post-Revolution rule, Iranian women have had more opportunities in some areas and more restrictions in others. One of the striking features of the revolution was the large scale participation of women from traditional backgrounds in demonstrations leading up to the overthrow of the monarchy. The Iranian women who had gained confidence and higher education under Pahlavi era participated in demonstrations against Shah to topple monarchy. The culture of education for women was established by the time of revolution so that even after the revolution, large numbers of women entered the civil service and higher education, and in 1996 fourteen women were elected to the Islamic Consultative Assembly. In 2003, Iran's first woman judge in Pahlavi era, Shirin Ebadi, won Nobel Peace Prize for her efforts in promoting human rights.
According to UNESCO world survey, at primary level of enrollment Iran has the highest female to male ratio in the world among sovereign nations, with a girl to boy ratio of 1.22 : 1.00. By 1999, Iran had 140 female publishers, enough to hold an exhibition of books and magazines published by women. As of 2005, 65% of Iran's university students and 43% of its salaried workers were women. and as of early 2007 nearly 70% of Iran's science and engineering students are women. This has led to many female school and university graduatesn being under-utilised. This is beginning to have an effect on Iranian society and was a contributing factor to the anti-regime protests by Iranian youth.
27.1% of the ministers in government are women (ranks 23rd out of 125 countries) and 3.4% are parliamentarians (140th out of 157 countries).[55] In 2009 Fatemeh Bodaghi became Vice President for Legal Affairs and a top advisor to President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad. Maryam Mojtahidzadeh who runs the women's ministry was also selected as an advisor to the president. //
There are 2.2billion muslims in the world. The additional countries that you include have small populations. Less than one per cent of the total of muslims.
Populations
Sudan: 30million
Somalia 10 million
Yemem 23 million
I have no idea about Iraq, but I do not think Iran should be on your list. In many ways Iran treats its women well (Compared to Saudi, Afghanistan at least).
// During the era of post-Revolution rule, Iranian women have had more opportunities in some areas and more restrictions in others. One of the striking features of the revolution was the large scale participation of women from traditional backgrounds in demonstrations leading up to the overthrow of the monarchy. The Iranian women who had gained confidence and higher education under Pahlavi era participated in demonstrations against Shah to topple monarchy. The culture of education for women was established by the time of revolution so that even after the revolution, large numbers of women entered the civil service and higher education, and in 1996 fourteen women were elected to the Islamic Consultative Assembly. In 2003, Iran's first woman judge in Pahlavi era, Shirin Ebadi, won Nobel Peace Prize for her efforts in promoting human rights.
According to UNESCO world survey, at primary level of enrollment Iran has the highest female to male ratio in the world among sovereign nations, with a girl to boy ratio of 1.22 : 1.00. By 1999, Iran had 140 female publishers, enough to hold an exhibition of books and magazines published by women. As of 2005, 65% of Iran's university students and 43% of its salaried workers were women. and as of early 2007 nearly 70% of Iran's science and engineering students are women. This has led to many female school and university graduatesn being under-utilised. This is beginning to have an effect on Iranian society and was a contributing factor to the anti-regime protests by Iranian youth.
27.1% of the ministers in government are women (ranks 23rd out of 125 countries) and 3.4% are parliamentarians (140th out of 157 countries).[55] In 2009 Fatemeh Bodaghi became Vice President for Legal Affairs and a top advisor to President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad. Maryam Mojtahidzadeh who runs the women's ministry was also selected as an advisor to the president. //
Gromit, although we have neglected to mention the rest of the Muslim world, the combined population of the countries listed here amounts to about 500 million – not an insignificant number by anyone’s standards. However, I don’t see why you deem the numbers involved relevant at all. Abuse is abuse. Look at it this way. If any other sector of society – black people for example – or the disabled – was systematically subjected to the treatment that many of these women are exposed to throughout their entire lives, there would be universal condemnation and rightly so – but because this emanates directly from religious dogma – and it does - which we’ve been programmed not to criticise, not only do many people fail to condemn it – they make excuses for it, as you are doing.
// In many ways Iran treats its women well (Compared to Saudi, Afghanistan at least).//
‘In many ways’? You’re at it again! What about the other ways – the ways in which it does not treat women well? And why are you comparing it to anything but the highest standards? I’ve no doubt that in any other circumstances you would agree that no woman deserves to be perceived as less worthy than a man, that all women deserve equal respect to that afforded to a man, and that in any civilised society nothing less is acceptable - but in this instance you don’t. Ask yourself why.
// In many ways Iran treats its women well (Compared to Saudi, Afghanistan at least).//
‘In many ways’? You’re at it again! What about the other ways – the ways in which it does not treat women well? And why are you comparing it to anything but the highest standards? I’ve no doubt that in any other circumstances you would agree that no woman deserves to be perceived as less worthy than a man, that all women deserve equal respect to that afforded to a man, and that in any civilised society nothing less is acceptable - but in this instance you don’t. Ask yourself why.
Actually Naomi no, my knowledge of Islam is not lacking merely because I don't agree with you. Why post a sensible question which could be an excellent debate and then automatically dismiss anyone who is not throwing coconuts from the same tree as you, it's bizarre.
And my name is Sharingan as I know you are aware.
And my name is Sharingan as I know you are aware.
I reiterate, my knowledge of Islam is not lacking and neither is my knowledge of Judaism or Christianity. My mother is Jewish, my father was Catholic and two of my step sisters in Germany are married to Muslims, that's just on a personal level. On top of that I have read all the relevant ' holy ' books and would actually cite religion as one of my interests. Given that, why would you say, without ever once having any meaningful discourse with me on the subject that my knowledge of Islam is lacking unless it was purely based on the fact that I, along with a few other people you seek to ignore or ridicule on here, don't agree with you?
Thanks for making the effort with the name, it's nice to nice don't you think?
Thanks for making the effort with the name, it's nice to nice don't you think?
Sharingan, I confess I ignore some people, but I don’t ‘seek’ to ridicule anyone and I resent the accusation. You clearly fail to heed your own words.
To answer your question, despite your claimed in-depth understanding and experience, your post at 10:09 today confirms to me that your knowledge of Islam is lacking. You may we’ll know a couple of moderate Muslims – most people do - but anyone who has studied Islamic literature but nevertheless thinks that fundamentalist Islam – the sort that treats women as underlings, possessions, and chattels - is capable of change has not understood that literature. Fundamentalist Islam cannot change – and it cannot change because the words of Allah and of Mohammed - same thing really – are beyond criticism and indisputable.
To answer your question, despite your claimed in-depth understanding and experience, your post at 10:09 today confirms to me that your knowledge of Islam is lacking. You may we’ll know a couple of moderate Muslims – most people do - but anyone who has studied Islamic literature but nevertheless thinks that fundamentalist Islam – the sort that treats women as underlings, possessions, and chattels - is capable of change has not understood that literature. Fundamentalist Islam cannot change – and it cannot change because the words of Allah and of Mohammed - same thing really – are beyond criticism and indisputable.
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